Say whatever you want about BJC but this person is not a troll. Period.
We know each other personally.
IMHO, this person still believes Biblical writings have some importance to us today.
Hi BJC. Hope you all are well.
Lisa
No Troll Here, Class
MDS' Book "The Report" (1994) Predicts Global War Ahead!
by bjc2read 34 Replies latest jw friends
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bjc2read
Hi Lisa:
I thank you for your kind comments about my beliefs in the Bible and for standing up for me!
My, here I've been on this board for going on 3 years now and someone has the nerve to call me a troll, What?!?
I can't believe it.
You know, I still have our old "Pioneer School" Class picture, taken back in the 80's, and girl you are looking as youthful as ever too. Do you still have your old copy of that picture of us taken from Pioneer School? Its a great picture.
Take care and keep in touch, and thanks again.
bjc
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Nathan Natas
Lisa, I think it's cool of you to speak up for BJC because you know him and know he is sincere. Is there any chance that you or BJC also personally know MDS("Modern Day Servant") or TWMC ("Two Witnesses Must Come")?
I don't agree with BJC's theories, but he isn't behaving at all like a troll. A troll usually uses inflamatory remarks and then disappears for a while. BJC seems willing to engae in dialog - actually responding to messages, which is un-troll-like.
I got a copy of "The Report" a few months ago and skimmed through it. If memory serves, sometime in the spring of 2003 TWMC is going to produce a second REPORT. Is that correct?
[sarcasm] How thrilling it is to be living during the time of fulfillment of Bible prophecy! Enoch must have felt the same way, all weak in the knees and light-headed, no? [/sarcasm]
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bjc2read
Logical,
I put my "trust" in God and any arrangement He sees fit to give us. And that means, I firmly believe in Jehovah's Newly Appointed Messiah, the Modern Day "Servant", as shown at Isaiah 49:1-7.
If you take the time and carefully read the above verses you will readily see, these verses DO NOT apply to Jesus Christ.
Personally, I happen to believe Jehovah's Witnesses, that's BAPTIZED JWs more specifically, were indeed members of God's New Covenant instituted by Jesus Christ. However, I personally believe they have lost that spiritual standing with God completely after the 1991 fiasco with the Governing Body's treason against Almighty God and Jesus Christ in the UN/NGO situation. Because of that act of total blasphemy on their part, JWs are "christians" no more in God's eyes, and thus they DO NOT have Jesus Christ as their mediator anymore. Now, the whole nation must be "atoned for" because of the "sins" of their "anointed" leaders before God, to regain their good standing with Him. (See Lev. 4:3; Ezekiel 16:59-63.)
Hence, if any wish to be saved then, they must accept and abide by God's New Arrangement for salvation. And we cannot get around this situation, the Holy Scriptures show.
I personally believe Almighty God has provided a NEW arrangement. A New mediator and a New Covenantal arrangement, because of the actions of the Governing Body in 1991, to save JWs as "Israel" and also all obedient mankind.
That is my belief.
MDS's Predictions For The Future
Further I believe, MDS will prove himself by his predictions of the future, and the "Great War" of Daniel 10:1. These are his written predictions for the future.
MDS claims Osama Bin Laden's quest for the destruction (or "deathstroke" or "swordstroke") of the United States and Great Britain thru Jihad will soon be realized! Although, the 2 nations will undergo a "healing" process afterward. (See Revelation 13:3, 12, 14.) This great destruction will come through the direct efforts of OBL and the small group called "Al-Qaeda", who is also foretold in scripture at Daniel 11:23. Also through the united efforts of the nations of Islam, viewing this as the foretold great battle or JIHAD that they must wage. I believe the world scene is perfect such a turn of events. In fact, on March 4th and 5th, 49 Islamic Nations are meeting in Quatar to discussion methods of opposition against the US/GB war efforts to disarm Iraq.
For some timenow, MDS has predicted the full culmination of this terrific situation to begin when the "King of the South" makes his historic "push" toward Iraq, as mentioned at Daniel 11:40. And we know, that could occur within weeks. MDS predicts Osama bin Laden specifcally, will prove to be the Bible's "Small Horn" of Daniel 8:23-25. And for another dominate 7 years (2003-2010), Osama bil Laden will also exercise his authority as the "King of the North" too, a world ruler and spiritual guide or guru for other Islamic nations. MDS, using the bible, predicts OBL dominance to go on for some 7 years. Then MDS predicts, again using God's Word the Bible, Osama bin Laden will be put do death by God Almighty himself, leaving the "10 horns" of Daniel's 4th beast to run things BY THEMSELVES (without OBL as ruler and leader) for a short period of time, after which God deals with them too, destructively. (Daniel 8:25)
Logical, we all know, MDS has made his predictions out in the open. He has written them down for all to read. Now, lets wait and see if they come true. MDS' predictions for the FUTURE are there for all to see. And if they prove accurate, this will remove all doubt about his claims to be God's "Servant". This is because, we know, only Jehovah God knows the future, in detail. Only Jehovah. So this would mean, if MDS' predictions about the future come true, it will clearly mean that
(a) MDS can only, only "proceeds from the Father", the only One that truly knows the future, and that
(b) MDS is the "Spirit of Truth" that Jesus Christ himself "sent" to guide us "into ALL TRUTH" and to "DECLARE THE THINGS COMING", or the future to us. (See John 15:26; 16:13.)
And, this would also prove, MDS' complete ministry, does indeed "bring glory" and honor to Jesus Christ, instead of detracting from his glory. This would prove MDS is what he is supposed to do, namely, he is only "declaring the things" that he "received" from Jesus Christ. (See John 16:14, 15)
Logical, the immediate future will tell, and I assure you, you won't have to wait much longer to know for sure.
Have a nice day.
bjc
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logical
ok, I dont claim to possess all knowledge and interpretation of scripture, although I am not goiing to take your word that it means what you say it does, I am going to say, even if it does it still doesnt explain why I must ignore Christ's council to not follow earthling man, and that the only way to JAH is through Christ. Why has truth been changed? Why do I yet again feel as though i'll be damned if I do, and I certainly am damned now cos I dont listen to you.
Who knows. But, why should I listen to your brother who declared himself to be the fulfillment when I have heard the same crap so often before? I once believed the Watchtower was the FDS, and they were God's true channel. Thankfully (one thing to MDS's credit) I discovered they were not and did not possess the truth they so claimed to have. So far MDS has offered nothing unique, nothing different, nothing to prove himself. The WTS expected me to get baptised into their Org. MDS expects me to go even further, and pray to JAH in MDS's name. Sorry, but I cant do that.
As for the Spirit of truth, you say MDS gets his info from the bible. Is this the only place he gets it from? Do you or not agree that God's Word is clearly stated at John 1:1. John 1:14 and Revelation 19:13 as being Christ? So unless MDS gets his information from JAH, through Christ, then I am not going to follow it blindly.
Why should I be condemned to hell death or whatever punishment you have in store for me, for excercising caution when earthling man tells me stuff "of great importance"? We are warned of false prophets, not only who fail in their prophecies, but also those who's prophecies DO come to pass, but were NOT from JAH.Deuteronomy 13:1-5; Revelation 16:13-14
This seems to be to be a cruel sick twisted game your god is playing. Its not fair, and how the hell are we supposed to pass this test if the rules and truth are changed? This is what leads me to believe that you are NOT true prophets, that you are to be avoided.
So I'll be pushing up radioactive daisies in 2 weeks time. Oh well, life sucked big time and I sure will be glad to be dead instead of inheriting the earth with self righteous arrogant people like yourselves. Sorry if I sound hypocritical but I am just sinful earthling man, and you have every right not to listen to anything I say. But, all I want is truth and I am often told I have intelligence and am trying to use this to figure out whether what has been said is truth. My heart tells me its not, as does my brain.
Do I have a wicked heart? Am I a goat? If so, theres nothing I could do either way really is there?
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Nathan Natas
wow
I suppose that if the US was to produce UBL's dead corpse, that would put a bit of a squeezeon MDS' prophecizing, wouln't it? I mean, he did specifically state that God would execute UBL in 2010, right?
By the way, BJC, you and MDS are not the same person by any chance, are you?
This is all kinda entertaining, and I accord it the same "suspension of disbelief" that other great imaginative works, like Spiderman or DareDevil deserve. The real show begins when "suddenly, nothing happens" and the prophet starts looking for divine deliverance from the spot his put himself in.
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logical
One other thing..... I am going to research the Muslim conquests and the Bubonic Plague....... I know little about them. Just a gut feeling. I could be wrong tho.
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back2dafront
In fact, on March 4th and 5th, 49 Islamic Nations are meeting in Quatar to discussion methods of opposition against the US/GB war efforts to disarm Iraq.
Did this happen??
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Shemittah
Well I have to say that this thread proved extremely interesting to me, so I have and will be doing some Bible research of my own (without the help of the WTS!), the results of which I'll post here later for anyone who might be interested.
TraumaHound: I like the program code! However, as all computer programmers know: However elegant the program code, if it is based on faulty logic, eventually the program will crash. I hope for your sake that the sarcasm subroutine called - if futureDate is greater than currentDate - is futureproof! ;o)
For all those who may rubbish Bible prophecy, you might like to consider the British comedian Jasper Carrot's words of wisdom: "I always buy the Watchtower and Awake! when the JWs come round, you know, just in case!" I personally don't believe the WTS to be "God's channel of communication", however, I do have a respect for the Bible and entertain the possibility that it does (at least in some parts - since we cannot be sure of what truly constitutes the complete Word of God) contain divine prophecy.
BJC: I remember you from many months ago when I used to post here under the name "NewWay". Some of my previous views have changed somewhat concerning things of a religious nature. My belief is that prophecy relating to "Israel" (or the "Land of Decoration") refers to literal Israel which can be seen and understood by all nations of the earth as it has and continues to occupy and important part of the world scene. This is in great contrast to the WTS (and the organisation of JWs) whose presence and significance on the world stage has and continues to be insignificant in comparison. I don't say that to ridicule JWs, but rather to put things in perspective. We must not forget that the WTS interpretation of "Israel" in Bible prophecy is simply that, interpretation, and as I pointed out many months ago, "greater fulfillment" application of scripture as a modus operandi in interpreting prophecy, had its beginnings with Jewish mysticism which allowed Jewish clerics (and early "Church Fathers", such as Origen) to make scripture accord with their own particular ideas. Although "The Report" still sounds like a revised version of WTS interpretation, I still found it interesting, and thank you for posting the extract.
As for MDS, I don't believe s/he is THE "anointed" (i.e. "messiah") servant of God no more than the next person who comes along claiming to be "God's channel of communication" (see Mark 13:21-23) - I hope you understand my caution. As far as the Spirit "receiving" what is Jesus', the Greek word used (lambano) in the scripture (John 16:14) can according to Strongs: "1a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it". What was the Spirit taking from Jesus? The role which Jesus played towards his disciples as teacher, one who would carry where Jesus "left off" by guiding the disciples "into all truth" (verse 13). We must not forget who Jesus was talking to. It is true that we could extend Jesus words to all his following (future as well as present), but Jesus was addressing his words to the disciples at that time, not to some future generation of disciples. Therefore, what/whoever the Spirit is would be guiding his disciples from that time, which if it were a person would have had to have been someone living all those years ago and in order to be of service to later generations of disciples would have to have an incredibly long lifespan if s/he were to be alive today. This is why it seems more logical to me that Jesus was refering to the "active force" which was poured upon the disciples at Pentecost and led them as "teacher" on earth, after Jesus departed to heaven. In the letter to the Ephesians (3:20), Paul says that there was "the power working in us [Christians]" (Greek = "ten dunamin ten energoumenoen en hemin"). That sounds like the "Holy Spirit" to me, that is according to Jewish O.T. usage, not Christian Trinitarian usage. Just out of interest, don't Muslims believe that Mohammed was the fullfilment of Jesus' words regarding "the helper" and therefore regard him as being the "Holy Spirit"?
Kind regards to you.
Alex. -
Shemittah
DANIEL 11:40
I've taken a close look at this scripture and the underlying language (both from the Greek Septuagint and the Masoretic Text). Here are my first observations. Greek Septuagint (LXX)
"KAI {and} EN {in} KAIROU {of-time} PERATI {end} *SUGKERATISTHESETAI {he-shall-conflict} META {with} BASILEOS {king} TOU {of-the} NOTOU {south/southwest-wind} KAI {and} SUNACHTHESETAI EP AUTON {be gathered against him} BASILEUS {king} TOU {of} BORRA {north/north-wind} EN {in} ARMASI {wagons} KAI {and} EN HIPPEUSI {with horsemen} KAI {and} EN {in} NAUSI {ships} POLLAIS {many}, KAI {and} EISELEUSONTAI {shall-enter/invade} EIS {into} TEN {the} GEN {land}, KAI {and} SUNTRIPSEI {crush/wear-away}, KAI {and} PARELEUSETAI {shall-sail-past}." - Bagster & Sons. Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT)"UVE'ETH {and-at-time-of} QETS {end} *YITHNAGACH {he-will-engage-in-battle} 'IMO {with-him} MELEKH {king-[of]} *HANEGEV {the-South} VEYISTA'ER {and-he-will-storm-out} 'ALAIV {against-him} MELEKH {king-[of]} *HATSAPHON {the-North} BEREKHEV {with-chariot} UVEPHARASHIM {and-with-cavalries} UVA'ANIYYOTH {and-with-ships} RABOTH {many-ones} UVA' {and-he-will-invade} VA'ARATSOTH {into-countries} VESHATAPH {and-he-will-flood} VE'AVAR {and-he-will-sweep-through}. - The Interlinear NIV Hebrew-English Old Testament.
Important Hebrew Words
English Translation
"At the time of the end, the king of the south will lock horns with him, but the king of the north will attack him with chariots and riders and many ships. He will invade lands, sweeping through them like a flood." - The Jewish Bible [Tanakh The Holy Scriptures].
NAGACH - Strong's number 5055: "to butt with the horns; fig. to war against" In the LXX the word SUGKERATISTHESETAI is used which comes from the root word KERAS. This word is used properly of animals in defending themselves with their horns. For example, male deer lock horns and push each other in order to determine superiority.
NEGEB - Strong's number 5045: "from an unused root meaning to be parched; the south (from it drought); spec. the southern district of Judah, occasionally, Egypt (as south to Pal.). It is my belief that the King of the South is not America-Britain, but one which belongs to very dry land (at least at the time of the prophecy) south of Judah - the direction should be taken from the perspective of Israel.
TSAPHON - Strong's number 6828: "prop. hidden, i.e. dark; used only of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown). As with the "south", this "north", I believe, should again be taken from the perspective of Israel (i.e. to the north of it). If you travel northwards from Israel past the North Pole you'll end facing the USA. Maybe the WTS got their kings mixed up!