Is Relgious belief a trick of the mind?

by sleepy 31 Replies latest jw friends

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  sleepy

  What is it about our brians that drives people to religious beliefs that are so obviously nopt founded in fact or reason?Is it an inherant founction of our tiny brians or is it in fact our brians going wrong in trying to make sense of the world?

  Maybe its the psychological equivelent of an optical illution were your brain in trying to make sense of what it sees constructs an impossible reality .Like say when you draw a "3-D" box on a flat piece of paper and the brain tries to work out which face is on the front , but it can't, as none is, but the brain will put one in front whatever.Maybe religion is what the brain makes to explain the world and uses it so the weiredness of reality makes more sense.
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  Dansk

  It's got nothing to do with our brians. It's to do with our jeans.
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  JamesThomas

  "Religions" are simply thoughts, beliefs, ideas and concepts. Futile and desperate attempts of the mind to come to understanding and knowing what it can not know or understand. For the finite can not know the Infinite; as a drop can not encompass the sea. $.02 JamesT
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  gitasatsangha

  There are fundamental questions that some want to be answered. Different approaches are taken to the same ends, be it Christianity, Buddhism, Yogas, Quantom-Physics, Psychology, Western Philosophy, etc. Where it gets dangerous is when one makes absolute statements. If I am in New York, and I wish to go to Los Angeles, I can go by many routes and methods, each having its own risks, detriments, and boons. Or I might choose not to take the route at all, satisfied with my home.

  When dealing with "Why are we here? What happens to us when we die? Is there a god?" type questions, are a bit different. The traveller in NY suddenly is not even certain of proof of LA's existance. And though a few folks are ready and willing to say they know a friend of a friend who'se been there and shown the only foolproof way of making the journey, the potential traveller may not know for certain. He may have already been conned down dead-ends before. He may not want to wind up on a plane with empty fueltanks. To a certain degree you must look inside.

  You said a drop of water can not encompass the sea, but I would add that only a drop can experience the sea. The drop in fact, is the sea. What first seems macro becomes micro, and yet the pattern remains. It becomes a pointless matter trying to distinguish sunlight from the sun. The Non-Dual viewpoint rips away at the curtain of this concept of "This" and "That", leaving only "That." In a sense, the universe itself, and whatever particules, minds, egos, and forces it is made of, is God itself. That makes you and everything else divine. Getting to know yourself, then becomes the most "religious" of tasks. Far more difficult then dreaming of some angry invisible man in the sky.

  -Gita
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  Francois

  Well said, Gita.

  There are people who entertain various beliefs of a spiritual nature.

  Then there are groups of people who share the same spiritual beliefs. These groups are called "religions".

  True religion takes place in the spirit/heart/mind of the individual believer.

  $0.02
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  JamesThomas

  Gita wrote:

  "You said a drop of water can not encompass the sea, but I would add that only a drop can experience the sea. The drop in fact, is the sea. What first seems macro becomes micro, and yet the pattern remains. It becomes a pointless matter trying to distinguish sunlight from the sun. The Non-Dual viewpoint rips away at the curtain of this concept of "This" and "That", leaving only "That." In a sense, the universe itself, and whatever particules, minds, egos, and forces it is made of, is God itself. That makes you and everything else divine. Getting to know yourself, then becomes the most "religious" of tasks. Far more difficult then dreaming of some angry invisible man in the sky."

  I would basically agree with everything you said and said well. Ultimately there is only the sea. But the drop will not experience it...beyond perhaps a glimpse. There is the Infinite Sea, which mistakenly comes to believe that it is a drop, separate and apart. Then, feeling less than whole the drop creates religions, belief systems, methods, teachings and practices to guide it back to the sea. But, it will not succeed, except perhaps in enforcing and supporting it's belief in a separate-self ("see, I must be separate from the Sea, or why would there be all these religions to help get me Home"). It wont succeed, it won't get anywhere, because there is nowhere to go. The belief in a separate-drop (self) is bogus to begin with. Bogus efforts, by a bogus drop = bogus. Cut to the chase. Go to the root. See that there is no drop. See that there is no real separation to form such a drop; it's only thoughts, a story, a construct of the mind. Just see that the drop is not genuine. And what Is Genuine, will be seen. Of course this moment of true-seeing is not accomplished by the drop...it is seen through the eyes of the Sea. The ego, the drop, does not want to die, it wants to be in the Ocean and be a drop at the same time. problem is...what happens when you drop a drop in the Ocean? JamesT (of the ramblings class)
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  onacruse

  Religion is the social equivalence of accepting yourself because others accept you. "The drop in the ocean...the ocean of drops."

  Craig
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  Satanus

  Gita did a good job of describing true religion. Belief isn't required for this, at least not once it is percieved. Few experience it for themselves, so they get second hand stuff everywhere and call it dogma. That's when faith/belief is needed. Since faith is like a candle in the wind, they try to reinforce it w increased numbers. The larger the group, the more secure they feel.

  SS
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  gitasatsangha

  JamesT Said:

  Cut to the chase. Go to the root. See that there is no drop. See that there is no real separation to form such a drop; it's only thoughts, a story, a construct of the mind. Just see that the drop is not genuine. And what Is Genuine, will be seen. Of course this moment of true-seeing is not accomplished by the drop...it is seen through the eyes of the Sea. The ego, the drop, does not want to die, it wants to be in the Ocean and be a drop at the same time. problem is...what happens when you drop a drop in the Ocean?

  You make me think a lot, curse you! J/K Ok, the gears are turning slowly for me now.

  I'll use the perspective of a peculiar athiestic philosopher named Gautama, or more commonly known as the Buddha. The problem, as the Buddha pointed out, is that there is suffering. Now Gautama did not actually walk around saying "Everything is suffering." He ackowledged that it existed. Among the Budhists that is the first noble truth. It has to be acknowledged, and faced, and understood. Now every "Religion" has its means of dealing with suffering. The Witnesses, for instance, say one day you won't suffer, and yet for all practical purposes, still be human. What a boring existance that would be. Who wants to spend a trillion years growing fruit, praising Jah, or meeting a bunch of newly non-dead relatives you remember that you never really liked all that much to begin with?

  Perhaps suicide attempts would be rampant in a "New Order." Hope springs eternal.

  What causes suffering? That part is attachment, Buddha said. You become attached to anything. Our minds are like that slimy "Gack" stuff Nickelodeon sells to kids. Attached to feelings, love, the senses, anything really. And we all suffer. Back to the matter at hand, this little suffering drop of water.

  No it doesn't know that it is part and parcel of the Sea. Yes it would like to think it is. No, it probably will never rach some epiphany where it figures it all out. Maybe it will come close. I think its possible that anyone could, but I also think the event is rare, IMHO. What we have left is the age old conundrum of religion. Do we get a second chance at it? Do we get multiple chances? And infinite amount. What happens to us when we die? I might believe in rebirth, you might not. Some might not believe in the soul at all. It boils down to the answer fitting the person again. Not that I am opposed to nonoppresive organized religion. "Cake tases good, whichever way you eat it." -Sri Ramakrishna.
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  gitasatsangha

  My apologies for spelling errors.