What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon 127 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    WTS does NOT recognized baptisms of other religions.

    Yes, this is clear. It seems both JW and Catholic church don't recognize each other's baptism over interpretation of scripture. Ultimately both claim the spirit directs them to their each conclusion. Maybe they're just both valid. After all, neither invokes satan or belzebub in their baptism ritual.

    Why would anyone care what the Catholic church thinks about another religion?

    It does appear that the Catholic church holds more authority and weight on the basis of its history and tradition across millenia (than JW). It's difficult to ascertain and judge any Christian religion if it isn't against or in contrast to the earliest one.

  • vienne
    vienne

    " It's difficult to ascertain and judge any Christian religion if it isn't against or in contrast to the earliest one."

    From a Christian perspective that seems irrational. A religion claiming to be Christian should best be contrasted with scripture, not other denominations. A long history does not certify "truth" or holiness or rationality. Though I hold slightly different beliefs, I associate with a General Conference (Atlanta) fellowship. No one within that fellowship cares about Catholic opinion. They care about Scripture.

    https://coggc.org/

    From a historian's perspective contrasts and conflicts are important. So while I might record shifting Catholic viewpoints of Protestant faiths, Catholic beliefs do not certify or call into question other faiths.

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    Vienne,

    it should not be lost on you, or anyone else, that it was the Catholic Church, that produced, propagated, protected and promoted the Bible. The Catholic Church, because of its history, continuity l, unwavering and mostly unchanged doctrines makes it a standard against all other Christian denominations are compared to.

    ttwsyf

  • vienne
    vienne

    TTWSYF, That's Catholic propaganda. A Christian would attribute that to God.

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    vienne-TTWSYF, That's Catholic propaganda.

    On the surface it may seem that way. But if you can accept that Jesus transmitted a measure of responsibility to an imperfect human man in Peter and the apostles, then the entirety of that imperfect human aspect of Christianity must be studied.

    And it truly doesn't take long to see the extensive connections between those early Christians and what came to be identified as the catholic church.

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    Vienne,

    I agree with you on that God was responsible for the Bible. The Catholic Church would say that they have been guided by the Holy Spirit in the creation of their holy book which was/is used extensively in their liturgy.

    ttwsyf

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    “Ratzinger‑Pepi” and the Myth of the Australian Witness

    Why the StefanieBrzakovic story collapses under scrutiny

    1. A headline too good to check

    In April2005, within days of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger’s election as Pope BenedictXVI, the CanberraTimes splashed a feel‑good human‑interest piece across its pages:

    “Pope remembers Steffie – But he’s still just a naughty boy to me, says Cooma cousin.”

    The article presented StefanieBrzakovic (née Blabst, 1927‑2013), an Australian Jehovah’s Witness living in the small town of Cooma (New South Wales), as the Pope’s “first cousin”. She claimed that the new pontiff had telephoned her for the first time in half a century, affectionately called himself “Ratzinger‑Pepi”, and praised Jehovah’s Witnesses for doing “the work we Catholics should be doing.”

    The story was recycled in 2008 by IlGiornale and a handful of continental newspapers when Benedict visited Australia, but each retelling quietly downgraded the relationship from first to second cousin. None offered fresh evidence; all repeated the same uncorroborated quotes.

    Key point: every version of the tale rests on a single witness – MrsBrzakovic herself – with no supporting documentation and no Vatican confirmation.

    2. Genealogy: the paper trail that isn’t there

    BenedictXVI’s maternal ancestry is exceptionally well documented:

    Generation

    Ancestral line

    Region

    Parents

    MariaPeintnerRieger (18841963) IsidorRieger (18601912)

    Oberaudorf & Rimsting, Bavaria

    Grandparents

    AntonPeterPeintner (1818‑1877) ElisabethMariaTauber (1832‑1904) / JohannNepomukReiss (1831‑1908) MariaAnnaRieger (1829‑†)

    Tyrol (South‑Tyrol) & Swabian Bavaria

    Great‑grandparents

    Peintner, Tauber, Reiss, Rieger families back to the late 1700‑s

    Entirely German‑speaking Tyrol & Bavarian Swabia

    After months of archival work the only KatharinaBerger who matches MrsBrzakovic’s mother (b.20Aug1894) is found not in Pope Benedict’s family but in the baptismal registers of StMartin,Garmisch; her parents are JohannBerger and BarbaraBartl of nearby Farchant. Those surnames appear nowhere in the Ratzinger/Peintner/Rieger/Tauber pedigree, and IsidorRieger was an only child, eliminating a whole branch where “cousins” could arise.

    Put simply, the requisite common great‑grandparents do not exist; the “second‑cousin” label is genealogically impossible.

    3. Geography: the map that doesn’t fit

    The Ratzingers spent Joseph’s childhood in southeastern Bavaria: Tittmoning → AschauamInn → Hufschlag(nearTraunstein).
    MrsBrzakovic remembered “playing together” when the Ratzingers visited her family “50km away in Weilheim”. Yet Weilheim lies west of Munich; Traunstein lies far to the east. In the inter‑war years 100km of rural Bavaria was a day’s journey, not an afternoon jaunt for play‑dates. No parish, school or civil record places the two families in overlapping communities.

    4. Linguistics: the wrong nickname

    Bavarian boys named Josef/Joseph are called Sepp or Sepperl.
    Pepi is an Austrian‑Viennese diminutive, virtually unheard of in the rustic dialects of Ratzinger’s Upper‑Bavarian milieu. All contemporary relatives – including the Pope’s confirmed cousin ErikaKopper – attest he was called “Sepp”. A lone Australian witness suddenly producing “Ratzinger‑Pepi” is linguistically jarring.

    5. Déjà‑vu in Watchtower folklore

    The alleged papal compliment – “You Witnesses have small halls that are full; we have cathedrals that are empty” – is strikingly familiar to anyone who reads Watchtower literature. Almost identical lines appear in:

    • Watchtower15June1993: Pentecostal pastor laments, “We should be doing the work you do.”
    • Awake!8Feb1982 / Watchtower1Jan1997: Minister tells a Witness, “We have Holy Spirit but you people are doing the work!”

    Such stories function as internal morale boosters, showcasing imagined admiration from clergy who secretly “know the Truth”. MrsBrzakovic’s quotation fits the trope too perfectly to ignore.

    6. The burden of proof

    • There is no phone log, tape, or Vatican reference to the 2005 call.
    • The Vatican never acknowledged the lady, invited her to papal events, nor issued a discreet private‑audience notice (standard practice for real relations).
    • After 2005 the story surfaces only in Witness‑friendly or sensationalist outlets; mainstream German and Italian Catholic press treated it as hearsay.

    In historiography absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence – but when multiple lines (documents, geography, language, internal consistency) converge against a claim, the rational verdict is scepticism.

    7. Why the story matters – and why it fails

    Jehovah’s Witnesses understandably relish anecdotes that place a Pope applauding their door‑to‑door preaching. Yet theology aside, Pope BenedictXVI spent his career defending Catholic orthodoxy against exactly the anti‑Trinitarian, anti‑sacramental positions JWs hold. The notion that he privately endorsed their evangelism just after ascending to the Chair of Peter stretches credulity to breaking point.

    The Brzakovic tale demands extraordinary belief – a lone octogenarian, no records, linguistic anomalies, genealogical impossibility – all for a sound‑bite that dovetails with Watchtower triumphalism.
    Critical inquiry shows it to be a house built on sand.

    8. Conclusion

    A polemic is only effective when tethered to fact. The facts here – documentary, geographic, linguistic, psychological – collectively sink the claim that Pope BenedictXVI had a Jehovah’s Witness cousin in Cooma whose missionary zeal he envied. The episode survives because it flatters a community eager for high‑profile validation, not because it withstands evidence‑based examination.

    Until a baptismal entry, marriage licence, or Vatican protocol record emerges linking the Berger/Bartl line to the Rieger/Peintner family, the story remains what it most plausibly is:

    An unverified anecdote, amplified for propaganda, and wholly unpersuasive to anyone who values documented truth over wish‑fulfilment.

    (1) Genealogical outline

    Generation

    Person

    Life dates

    Key relationships/notes

    +2

    JacobTauber

    17881864

    Wife: MariaNiedermayr(1801†). Ten children, incl. ElisabethMariaTauber.

    +2

    MariaNiedermayr

    1801

    +1

    ElisabethMariaTauber

    1832‑12‑09Natz1904‑05‑24Rimsting

    Married AntonPeterPeintner(1818‑1877) on1858‑02‑09; ten children incl. MariaTauber‑Peintner(1855‑1930).

    +1

    JohannNepomukReiss

    1831‑10‑23Günzburg1908‑11‑10Welden

    Partner: MariaAnnaRieger(1829†); one child: IsidorRieger(1860‑1912).

    +1

    MariaAnnaRieger

    1829‑09‑30Welden

    Parents: AndreasRieger(1792‑1840)&MariaKreszentiaSchönheinz(1792‑1852).

    +2

    AndreasRieger

    1792‑12‑20Welden1840‑10‑14Welden

    Parents: JosephRieger(1768‑1800)&MariaAnnaEnderle.

    +2

    MariaKreszentiaSchönheinz

    1792‑01‑14Welden1852‑10‑04Welden

    0

    IsidorRieger

    1860‑03‑22Welden1912‑05‑29Rimsting

    Married MariaTauber‑Peintner(1855‑1930) on1885‑07‑13; eight children incl. MariaPeintnerRieger(1884‑1963).

    –1

    MariaPeintnerRieger

    1884‑01‑08Oberaudorf1963‑12‑16Traunstein

    Married JosephRatzingerSr. on1920‑11‑09; children: Maria(1921), Georg(1924), Joseph(PopeBenedictXVI,1927‑2022).

    (2) Summary of the Australian “JW‑cousin” story

    Fact

    Source(s)

    Comment/current assessment

    CanberraTimes 2005 article: StefanieBrzakovic (néeBlabst, 1927‑2013) presented as the Pope’s “first cousin” who received a congratulatory call.

    CanberraTimes, Apr2005

    Sole testimony; no corroboration.

    Relationship later downgraded to “second cousin” in European press (2008).

    IlGiornale17Jul2008; Austrian wires 2008

    Repeats original quotes; no new evidence.

    Pope’s well‑documented maternal lines (Rieger, Peintner, Tauber, Reiss) contain no Berger/Bartl/Blabst link; IsidorRieger was an only child.

    Bavarian & Tyrolean parish / civil registers 1780‑1930

    Second‑cousin link genealogically impossible.

    Baptism record: KatharinaBerger (20Aug1894, Garmisch) – parents JohannBerger &BarbaraBartl.

    StMartin parish, Garmisch (e‑mail 2025)

    Berger/Bartl surnames absent from Pope’s tree.

    Geographic mismatch: Ratzingers in SE Bavaria (Traunstein area); Brzakovic family recalled Weilheim (west).

    Bavarian gazetteers; Ratzinger memoirs

    ~100km separation – no shared parish/school.

    Nickname anomaly: claims of “Ratzinger‑Pepi” vs. documented Bavarian diminutive “Sepp/Sepperl”.

    Relatives’ testimony; dialect studies

    Undermines authenticity of quote.

    Quoted compliment mirrors stock Watchtower anecdotes (“You Witnesses do the work we should do”).

    Watchtower15Jun1993; Awake!8Feb1982

    Suggests borrowing from JW folklore.

    Vatican never confirmed call; no invitation or audience recorded.

    Vatican Press Office silence

    No institutional trace.

    Conclusion: story remains unverified and genealogically untenable.

    High probability of apocryphal tale.

  • vienne
    vienne

    how very ocd of you.

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