What does the Catholic church think of JW?

by Halcon 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

aqwsed12345

@slimboyfat
It's possible that it was her married name, but that doesn't solve the other problem.
I looked it up, and the Pope's childhood nickname was "Sepp" or "Sepperl." "Sepp" is a Bavarian and Austrian nickname for the name Joseph, while "Sepperl" is a more affectionate, diminutive version of it. This kind of nickname is typical of the Bavarian dialect in which Ratzinger grew up. Ratzinger's cousin, Erika Kopper, told it this way.
So this Brzakovic story seems more like a typical JW apocryphal anecdote, the usual lesson of which is that "even the Pope acknowledges how good we are!"
slimboyfat

It's possible that it was her married name, but that doesn't solve the other problem.
Wow. You wasted a whole paragraph on a logical nonsense that anyone could spot in a nanosecond and all you can say is it’s “possible” that it’s her married name. It’s “possible” that this entire conversation is a complete waste of time. Forgive me if I don’t further credit you as an expert on Bavarian childhood nicknames of the 1930s more than somebody who was there when you can’t even spot that a woman’s married name is different than her maiden name. Completely by the way, Slavic names are very common in Austria and Bavaria. I have relatives who had Slavic names (Polish and Czech) throughout the Nazi period in Germany and Austria. Even the blind alleys you would lead us down are fact free zones.
aqwsed12345

Usual offended grumbling and unfounded insistence to an unverfied story.
Based on the detailed genealogical research, there are several strong reasons to doubt the authenticity of the story claiming that Stefanie Brzakovic (née Blabst) was a second cousin of Pope Benedict XVI. The Pope’s maternal ancestry is well documented: his mother, Maria Peintner Rieger, was born in Oberaudorf, Bavaria, to Isidor Rieger and Maria Tauber Peintner. Both sides of this family — the Riegers and the Peintners — were firmly rooted in Bavarian and Tyrolean German-speaking traditions, with no evidence of South Slavic ancestry. Isidor Rieger was born in Welden, Bavaria, and his parents, Johann Nepomuk Reiss and Maria Anna Rieger, were also Bavarian. There are no records of siblings for Isidor Rieger, making it highly unlikely for second cousins to have descended from his side. Maria Tauber Peintner came from Raas in Tyrol, Austria, and her family too was entirely of Tyrolean German origin.

Furthermore, the name Brzakovic is of South Slavic origin, and although Stefanie’s maiden name was Blabst — a German name — there is no documented link between the Blabst family and the Rieger, Reiss, Peintner, or Tauber families. No Blabst relatives appear in the Ratzinger maternal genealogical records. The geographic detail also weakens the story: the Ratzinger family lived in Tittmoning, Aschau am Inn, and later Traunstein in southeastern Bavaria, far from Weilheim in Oberbayern, which was mentioned in Brzakovic’s version of events. In early twentieth-century rural Bavaria, a distance of 100 kilometers would have represented a significant social separation, making regular family interactions unlikely without documented ties. Thus, from both genealogical and geographic standpoints, there is no credible evidence to support the claim that Stefanie Brzakovic was a cousin of Pope Benedict XVI.
The narrative is the same self-congratulatory triumphalism as you can find in any Watchtower: "even X and Y praised us, in fact every true man knows in his heart that we are the truth!"
You don't have to be an "expert" for this, it's enough to know German, I note that I know the Austrian and South German dialects quite well, and I've never heard anyone called "Pepi," it can be known what Ratzinger's childhood nickname really was.
Anony Mous

These unverified stories are always fun. I’m sure countless witnesses have already done all the research because it would be great for them if it were true for that argument alone.
Therefore by method of elimination it is not true, else there would be evidence. Although if you’re willing to go far enough, almost everyone in Europe is everyone else’s fourteenth cousin (seriously, you have about 80% chance to be <14 steps away from each other through a common ancestor with your spouse, the 50% chance is surprisingly close) take it about a thousand generations further and everyone in the world is now related.
Jeffro

slimboyfat:
In other news, I think it’s a bit hasty to say Catholics have been nicer to JWs than JWs are to Catholics when in Canada, for example, the Catholic Church promoted the persecution of JWs. For all their rhetorical flourishes I don’t recall JWs lobbying governments to get the Catholic Church banned.
And they did the crusades and inquisition too. So obviously their current stance must still be evil now like it was in Canada 80 years ago. (Setting aside the fact that events in Canada were precipitated by JWs distributing literature denouncing the Catholic Church first.)
Earnest

For those who have the time and interest in this research, it should be easy enough to establish whether Stefanie Brzakovic's mother, Katharina Blabst nee Berger (born 20 August 1894), was a cousin of Joseph Ratzinger's mother, Maria Ratzinger nee Peintner Rieger (born 8 January 1884 in Muhlbach bei Oberaudorf, Bavaria).
For the mothers to be cousins they must share the same grandparents. Both Katharina Berger and Maria Peintner Rieger have two sets of grandparents.
Maria Peintner Rieger's grandparents are Johann Reib (ca 1830) & Maria Anna Rieger (b.30/9/1829) and Anton Michael Peintner (ca 1820 - < 1855) & Elizabeth Maria Tauber (15/1/1834-1904, born in Moravia, Czechoslavakia).
Johann Reib & Maria Anna Riege married in Absam, Tyrol and owned a mill near Brixen, South Tyrol, before emigrating to Bavaria. They had a son, Isidore Rieger (22/3/1860-29/5/1912, born in Welden, Bavaria).
Anton Michael Peintner & Elizabeth Maria Tauber had a daughter, Maria Tauber-Peintner (29/6/1855-17/6/1930, born in Austria).
Isidore and Maria T-P married on 13 July 1885 in Austria and were the parents of Maria Ratzinger nee Peintner Rieger.
Katharina Berger's two sets of grandparents are a bit more difficult to establish. She lived from 20 August 1894 - 17 June 1962 and was buried at Weilheim in Oberbayern, Bavaria, Germany. She married Philipp Blabst (22/9/1897 - 19/2/1978) and Stefanie was born on 7 February 1927. But that is about as much as I have been able to establish.
Any budding genealogists happy to sort this out?
aqwsed12345
To determine whether Stefanie Blabst Brzakovic was truly a second cousin of Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger), we need to establish a familial link between their mothers, Katharina Blabst (née Berger) and Maria Peintner Rieger, respectively. Second cousins share great-grandparents, so we must trace both maternal lines back to identify any common ancestors.
✅ Established Information
Maria Peintner Rieger (Pope Benedict XVI's Mother)
- Born: 8 January 1884, Oberaudorf, Bavaria, Germany
- Parents:
- Grandparents:
These details are well-documented in genealogical records.
❓ Missing Information
Katharina Blabst (née Berger) (Stefanie's Mother)
- Born: 20 August 1894
- Married: Philipp Blabst (b. 22 September 1897; d. 19 February 1978)
- Died: 17 June 1962; buried in Weilheim in Oberbayern, Bavaria, Germany
- Child: Stefanie Blabst Brzakovic (b. 7 February 1927; d. 5 February 2013)
Currently, there is no available information regarding Katharina's parents or grandparents. Without this data, we cannot ascertain whether she shared any ancestors with Maria Peintner Rieger.
To confirm or refute the claim that Stefanie Blabst Brzakovic was Pope Benedict XVI's second cousin, it is imperative to uncover the identities of Katharina Berger's parents and grandparents. Only with this information can we determine if there is a shared lineage with Maria Peintner Rieger. Until such genealogical evidence is obtained, the assertion remains unverified.
Weilheim in Oberbayern, where Stefanie Blabst Brzakovic's mother, Katharina Berger, resided, is situated in Upper Bavaria. To assess the plausibility of a familial connection to Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger), it's pertinent to examine the geographical proximity of Weilheim to the birthplaces of the Pope's maternal ancestors:
📍 Geographical Distances
1. Weilheim in Oberbayern to Oberaudorf (Maria Peintner Rieger's birthplace):
- Distance: Approximately 90 km (56 miles) southeast.
- Travel Time: Around 1 hour and 15 minutes by car.
2. Weilheim in Oberbayern to Welden (Isidor Rieger's birthplace):
- Distance: Approximately 100 km (62 miles) northwest.
- Travel Time: About 1 hour and 30 minutes by car.
3. Weilheim in Oberbayern to Raas, South Tyrol (Maria Tauber Peintner's birthplace):
- Distance: Approximately 190 km (118 miles) south.
- Travel Time: Roughly 2 hours and 45 minutes by car.
Contextual Analysis
In the 19th and early 20th centuries, these distances represented significant separations, especially considering the transportation means of the time. Regular interactions between families from these regions would have been less common unless there were strong familial ties or economic reasons necessitating travel.
Given the lack of documented connections between the Blabst family and the Ratzinger maternal lineage, as well as the geographical distances involved, the likelihood of a close familial relationship, such as second cousins, appears low.
Conclusion
While geographical proximity alone doesn't confirm or refute familial ties, the combination of significant distances and the absence of documented genealogical links suggests that the claim of Stefanie Blabst Brzakovic being Pope Benedict XVI's second cousin is improbable.
Rivergang

Although if you’re willing to go far enough, almost everyone in Europe is everyone else’s fourteenth cousin
In all likelihood, the link between the former Pope Dominic and Stefanie Brzakovic (nee Blabst?) is probably something as described above:
- i.e. There is indeed a connection somewhere, but using the noun "cousin" to describe the relationship might be taking the meaning of that term just a little too far!
(Bearing in mind that the most effective form of propaganda is the half-truth).
Otherwise, that Canberra Times article sounds typical of the press release statements you hear during (or after) a Jehovahs Witness assembly. I know that from experience - once I was quoted in a press release which was intended for our local newspaper. By crikey, but was I mightily relieved when that paper decided not to publish the story! (Any follow-up phone calls would have been - to say the least - embarrassing).
As an aside, though, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that some highly ranked official in the Catholic church did comment favourably on the evangelistic approach taken by Jehovahs Witnesses. I have heard such comments myself, from an admittedly lay member of the church, but one whose level of faith could only be described as "greater than devout".
slimboyfat

Nicknames are peculiar, that’s the point of them. Some are predictable from a given name, many are not, anyone with basic life experience and a family knows this. In my family there are various nicknames that subvert or bear little relation to given names. Trying to work out the probability of a nickname in a different culture a century ago is a fools game with zero evidentiary value to anyone with any common sense. If the former pope’s cousin says she called her childhood playmate Pepi I’m inclined to believe her over a ChatGPT fuelled know-it-all who lacks any semblance of common sense. Not only did you seem to forget that a woman changes her name on getting married, you also didn’t know that Slavic names are very common in Bavaria despite claiming supposed familiarity with the area. Spew our ChatGPT nonsense elsewhere. This so-called discussion is a complete waste of time.
About nicknames, was it on here, or elsewhere, I heard about somebody called Hunter who gained the nickname Gatherer because he became a vegetarian? Classic. 😆
slimboyfat

As an aside, though, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that some highly ranked official in the Catholic church did comment favourably on the evangelistic approach taken by Jehovahs Witnesses. I have heard such comments myself, from an admittedly lay member of the church, but one whose level of faith could only be described as "greater than devout".
Indeed it’s the sort of mild compliment that others give to JWs all the time in preference to being rude or calling them heretics. Who knows if the pope really said this? We weren’t there. But it’s entirely plausible as the kind of response he might have made to a relative upon finding out she had become a JW. What would people rather him say, “well I called up to greet and recall our shared childhood but now that I find you’ve become a JW burn in hell!” 😆
The woman was apparently disappointed the pope never contacted her again especially when he visited Australia three years later. That’s perhaps its own story. His magnanimity and desire for reaching out to old friends early in the role had perhaps worn out as the pressures of the position took their toll. (All complete speculation, of course, before the numpties again point out the bleeding obvious.)

What does the Catholic church think of JW?

✅ Established Information

Maria Peintner Rieger (Pope Benedict XVI's Mother)

❓ Missing Information

Katharina Blabst (née Berger) (Stefanie's Mother)

📍 Geographical Distances

Contextual Analysis

Conclusion

Share this