Its been almost a year since I've been out; got a visit this past Sunday

by Leander 21 Replies latest jw friends

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  Leander

  Last year on May 18th I officially stopped attending JW meetings, I first told my wife and then I wrote a brief letter stating that I was resigning as a MS. Over that time period I've had some doubts about whether or not I was doing the right thing, but basically I feel that I've made the correct decision. Unfortunately I can't say that I've become more spiritual during these past few months, however I do feel more and more strongly that there are many things in the bible that may be erroneous. I'm not at the point of being an atheist, but I do feel that I'm ignorant of God's purpose for humans.

  This past Sunday I got a visit from the PO, another elder and a MS. The PO in my opinion is probably a good guy but I've always disliked the fact that he's way to ambitious (and at times ridicolously critical, to give you an example he spent 5-10 minutes lecturing my brother-in-law about bringing his 8 month old daughter to the book study wearing pants, this was during the winter months mind you.) about being in the limelight, so when we were talking he naturally tried to take the lead in the discussion. Fortunately my time out of the Org has made me a bit more aggressive especially when it comes to asserting myself on matters that I feel strongly about (when I was in the Org I was kind of timid and low key, I definitely would'nt have challenged any elders on bibical teachings) so I felt good about stopping him when he tried to run away with the discussion. (The MS who was also present and his family were becoming good friends of my wife and I but of course after I left that kind of slowed things down a bit. They still stay in close contact with my wife but I kinda keep my distance for the most part as I'm not interested in hearing any preaching from them).

  But anyway to get back to my story the MS was there and I still viewed him as a very trustworthy and good person, the same goes for the other elder but I never got the chance to know him very well on a personal level. The discussion was fairly light-hearted, they tried to convince me of the usual JW rhetoric (where else are you going to go, the end is near, etc..) in the end not much was accomplished. They still were'nt able to give me a solid answer to any of my questions (and I had'nt even jumped into the big issues such as the validity of 1914, failed predictions etc.) so after about an hour they cordially made an exit.

  As always after I usually talk with someone about the bible and any other religious matter my mind tends to turn to a few issues that I have never been able to fully answer. So I thought that I would bring them up here just to get a feel for what some of you may think.

  (although I don't beleive the bible is correct in its entirety I would like to be able to use the scriptures to answer the questions below)

  Did Jesus preaching commandment really extend to all christians?

  Scripturally is it possible to prove that 1914 does not have the significance that the org claims it to be?

  Did the bible ever fortell of a group who would form the slave class?

  Are there other religious orgs who attempt to decipher current and future events to be linked with the prophecies in Revelations? (or in other words are JWs the only ones who claim to know who the UN and other nations represent?)

  Thanks for bearing with me in this long post and I appreciate any insight that you might want to share.
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  blondie

  Hi, Leander, missed your posts. Since they had no answers, what did they say, "come back and worship blindly?"

  Blondie
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  minimus

  First 3 questions---answer no......last question, yes, some protestant ultraconservatives do and other millenialists.....Leander, I mentioned to you once before, that your posts on what bothered you the most about the organization is one that I saved a long time ago. I hope that none of us lose our spirituality.
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  95stormfront

  Leander

  I, until the board changed, usually posted as out4good3 and I was following your story with great interest. It's great to know that you weren't emotionally sucked back into the mindless groupthink that is borg theology. Hopefully your wife isn't giving you too much trouble over your decision and you're still managing to hold it together.

  I had my visit just after the new year. A couple of elders knocked on the door and I answered and told them to go away and that I had nothing to discuss with them. My wife went to the door and talked to them for awhile and since then I've heard nothing from them, although she was not pleased with the way I treated them. She's on notice though that when I want to talk to them, I'll let them know, and if they happen to just stop by and I'm willing to talk that I'll be setting the agenda and not be bulldozed by whatever their agenda is.

  Recently, she sat down and tried talking to me about how she wished she could be more regular going to the meetings since that is what she's "supposed" to be doing and that she needed help. I right away recognized the emotional guilt trip she was trying to lay down and said nothing to move the conversation any further. I neither encourage or discourage her from going and I make plans for activities for us irrespective of when meeeting times are. If she chooses to go with me....fine. If she chooses to go to the meetings, then I tell her that I'll see her when I get back. No longer do I put my life on hold in anticipation of the next WT scheduled activity.
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  NewYork44M

  My wife came home from the bookstudy last week and informed me that the elders are going to visit me this weekend. Dispite the fact that they invited themselves, I am going to go along with the visit.

  It should be an interesting visit, I will give a review of the meeting next week.
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  Farkel

  : and at times ridicolously critical, to give you an example he spent 5-10 minutes lecturing my brother-in-law about bringing his 8 month old daughter to the book study wearing pants, this was during the winter months mind you.)

  A TEN minute LECTURE about bringing a BABY to a home study who was wearing PANTS? What an asshole! Where in the Bible does it say one cannot bring a BABY wearing pants to another's HOME to study the Bible? Geeesh.

  : Did Jesus preaching commandment really extend to all christians?

  No. The Bible clearly said that among the Christians, SOME would be teachers. Not all, but SOME. And NOWHERE does it say they had to sell books to gain salvation.

  : Scripturally is it possible to prove that 1914 does not have the significance that the org claims it to be?

  Of course. In Matthew 24, Jesus' disciples were very curious about what sign Jesus would give them when he returned. They asked him specifically about that, and he answered specifically (by saying "this is the sign you are asking about") in Matthew 24:30.

  Watchtower leaders argue that all the things mentioned before Matthew 24:30 were real, things: wars, earthquakes, etc, but that the sign that Jesus SPECIFICALLY said was the sign in Matthew 24:30 was symbolic! What idiots.

  :Did the bible ever fortell of a group who would form the slave class?

  No. Only crackpots like the WTS try to make individual references and individual people into some larger, later-day "class."

  :Are there other religious orgs who attempt to decipher current and future events to be linked with the prophecies in Revelations? (or in other words are JWs the only ones who claim to know who the UN and other nations represent?)

  Of course there are: they are called "religious crackpots."

  Farkel
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  Francois

  Leander, I don't think you've got anything to be worried about. The Master was quite specific about what was expected of his followers: Love God with a whole soul; and love your neighbor as yourself. And that's it, that's all, end of report, fini.

  There is absolutely nothing even remotely supporting JW so-called theology. Carefully read the book of Galatians. In it you'll find a warning against anyone who came along and attempted to enforce the old law, the Mosaic law, on the new congregations. And then think what the JWs attempt to do. They say, "We're not under the law anymore, however the principles still apply." This is a sneaky, dishonest, unscriptural attempt to do an end-run around the plain language of Galatians. Where in the scriptures does Jesus say the principles apply? Where in the scriptures does anybody say the principles still apply? Who, in fact, besides the JWs make that claim? Other fundamentalist religions do. Pick one.

  I suspect that if you love god with a whole soul, and love your neighbor as you love yourself, you have little to fear since you will be perfectly observing the entire law. Fear is a terrible motivator. When you find yourself being motivated by fear, you'll know you're on the wrong track.

  Be at peace my friend,
  francois
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  mustang

  "Did Jesus preaching commandment really extend to all christians?"

  This is an interesting question. JW's have what I term the "Clergy-Laity Distinction Doctrine". And, of course, we all know that they proclaim that there is NO SUCH DIFFERENCE!!!!

  There are scriptures that indicate that "some were given as this & some were given as that...". These scriptures don't indicate the JW hierarchy or support it.

  "Are there other religious orgs who attempt to decipher current and future events to be linked with the prophecies in Revelations? (or in other words are JWs the only ones who claim to know who the UN and other nations represent?)"

  There seem to be a fair number who have taken up the chrono-prophet role. If JW's have dropped off that one, others have risen in their place.

  In the "olden days" Armstrong (WWCOG) used to do lots of this. I have seen Jack van Impe wax heavily in the Chrono camp. I have noticed others on the I-Net, but didn't note their names.

  Perhaps there is some "law of conservation" that applies to Chrono-Dubs and their brethren. Some of them are TV-evangelists, so the entertainment factor has been enhanced :)

  Best wishes on your encounters.

  Mustang
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  ozziepost

  This past Sunday I got a visit from the PO, another elder and a MS.

  Three to do a shepherding call!!!!!!!! That's heavy.

  I guess it was two elders plus a MS in training?
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  johnny cip

  just fast; hebrews 1st chapter. says that the time of the end was after jesus was cruxified. so that was 2000 years ago , not 1914 in fact hebrews chap. 1 makes the whole wt . look like crap. i found this site 6 months ago .. but i have looked all around the web and in in public and kh libraries for a few years. so i have a little background. . matt. 28 and eph 1 or 4 clearly say that jesus had kingdom power since the 1st century. i have no notes today but read your gospel and the holy sprit can be in you....freedom in christ