Talking with a young elder (page 2)

Introvert 2

I know a young elder we used to motocross together about 10 year5s ago. He dabbled in women and dope when in high school and his parents were glad I took an interest in him with the dirt biking and stuff. We had a pretty equal skill set so it was fun going out to the tracks with hi. He got a trade, married a babe and bought a house and moved up quickly to youngest elder in the circuit. True company man same as in team KTM, Suzuki or Yamaha. Some people just need to belong to an organization of some sort.

biblexaminer

If some 'missed the point'...

The fact that James was responsible for sending the APOSTATES to Antioch, and he was, as declared by the Watchtower, the "foreman" for the supposed 'governing body' at the time, means that the governing body of the first century, on whom the present-day Governing Body base their existence, was responsible for the trouble in Antioch.

The governing body was in the wrong.

And you won't hear about this bible based event at the kingdom hall.

Figure out why on your own.

OnTheWayOut

I am sure when this cult gets overturned down the road by one charismatic leader who grabs the power and the allegiance of the members (probably a lot less than the current number), he will use this example.

.....and there were men who were shoving circumcision down the throats of the Gentile converts.

You left a really bad picture in my head with that phrasing.

Viviane

That you are a slave.. Like everyone else in the organization, you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.....

You really like The Matrix, eh?

Floodguy

A word about this Paul stuff:

who the hell was he?

He had a vision on the road to Damascus, right? A bright light appeared, and then a voice. First time he tells the story, (Acts 9) the men with him see the light but don't hear the voice. Second time (Acts 22) the men hear the voice, but don't see a light. So what was it? By the way, Paul is the only Bible character I know of who encounters a 'bright light' and it just so happens to be him who informs us that Satan is transforming himself into an angel of light. Seeing a pattern yet?

Now, what was the criteria to be considered an Apostle? We see that when Judas needed to be replaced, they drew lots between Matthias and some other guy because they had seen Jesus baptized, had accompanied him and heard him teach for 3 years, and had seen him put to death. Otherwise, you ain't an apostle.

Paul begins one of his letters, I think to the Ephesians, by declaring "I am an apostle, I do not lie". Why else would he feel the need to defend himself if he hadn't been challenged on it? They didn't trust him. Then, in his second letter to Timothy, he pisses and moans about all Asia turning against him. Interesting.

Now look at Revelation 2 . Jesus commends the congregation in Ephesus for 'testing those who claim to be apostles, who are not, but are liars'. Gee, I wonder who he's talking about?

But, you may say, Revelation was written long after in 95CE! Really? Well, john is told to go and measure the temple. How can he do that if was obliterated 25 years previous? And who's testimony is it that gives the date of 95? We rely on the words of a half assed historian by the name of Irenneaus who lived in the third or fourth century. Why half assed? This guy also tells us Jesus was 50 when he was put to death!

Therefore, if there's no good reason to date the writings of John any later than the other Greek scriptures, then 66CE is just as likely, and makes the prophecies of 3 1/2 times, or years, till the time that the Gentiles trample Jerusalem fit perfectly with what happens in 70CE.

So, who was Paul? I submit that he was none other than the 'weeds sown amongst the wheat' that Jesus predicted . Paul's writings are clearly against the teachings of the twelve apostles and their master, Jesus himself. He said to 'KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS'!! Why don't we? Because Paul said.....

Viviane

Paul was exactly as much a Christian as anyone else in his era.

Floodguy

Sure, considering he was the first to be called by that name. The apostles were practicing Jews. Just like Jesus. Christianity should actually be called paulinity. It's all his teachings we follow, while paying mere lip service to Jesus. Paul was a fraud who lived out his days in comfort, probably right where the Vatican is today. Those who were his followers became the Roman Catholic Church, and made sure his writings figured prominently in their compilation of scripture.

JWdaughter

I remember when I first starting learning about the bible in context. Very different document than I read as a JW. Even the latitudes had been reduced to a "proof text". It's disrespectful to treat anyone's holy book with so much disdain for its message. Even on an academic level they miss it. I'm not a Christian and I see that.

Lieu

Meh, Paul was a bit whiny. "Woe is me in these chains for Christ!" No one wants to hear that all the time. Others were being fed to lions and whatnot. "Me, me, me, me." Besides, he genuinely belonged in chains; after all, he was a murderer.

Gotta remember he was a spoiled rich kid. Who he studied with wasn't cheap & is still revered in the Jewish community today. Also, he was a single Jewish male with Roman citizenship.

stuckinarut2

Good comments Floodguy... I had not thought of that before

Talking with a young elder

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