by fulltimestudent 112 Replies latest jw friends
The below cartoon was recently published in a New Zealand newspaper, and sums up the inevitable conclusion of any foreign occupation of Afghanistan. Blame any political leader you like, but the result was going to be inevitable, even before it started.
Yes, it is true that the Taliban would have eventually one, regardless of whichever national government would have opposed them.
What does this topic and its initial post have to do with "JW: Friends"? It is posted in the wrong category. It should be posted in the Politics category or the News category.
Correction: I should have wrote "won" instead of "one".
This concept that somehow the poppy growers won is strange to me. Its like ,after being knocked out in the first 30 seconds of rounds one, a boxer is revived and stands up, and seeing his opponent is gone (to the dressing room for a victory press conference), begins declare himself victor to the empty arena.
The poppy growers and goat herders didnt win. They didnt beat the Soviets either. The USSR was failing as a nation (thanks to the brilliant tactics of the USA under Ronald Regan) and decided to pull back. They held that dirt for almost Ten years. If you get hit in the face for ten years and finally someone stops because their hand hurts, that was a win for your face I guess…?
The USA held that dirt for 20 years and could have held it for 20 more. The poppy growers and goat herders were hiding in caves. Literal cave men. They were of no threat whatsoever. The USA decided to go home. There was no forcing the USA out. There was no threat of loss or defeat. As a nation we decided to stop punching them in the face. A win for the tali’s face, i guess….?
If by defeat you mean the ruskies and americans failed to change the hearts and minds of the mohammedans, absolutely correct. That was predictable as night and day. It would take two generations of occupation to do that. But defeat on the battle field? Not even close.
The US didn't leave victorious. They left with the world laughing at their stupidity and incompetence.
They left with the world laughing at their stupidity and incompetence.
The enemies of the United States no longer fear this country, and the allies of the United States no longer trust this country. I cannot say I blame either side.
Justaguy,
There are two ways in which an enemy can be defeated. One is by straight out destruction of his forces on the battlefield. The other is by more subtle means - destruction of his will to fight.
Invariably, any power that has ever attempted to occupy Afghanistan has ended up falling prey to that second one. They can indeed win a series of battlefield victories, but which still don't bring the conflict to a definite conclusion. Their (Afghan) enemies just will never oblige by handing over their rifles and simply giving up the ghost!
This is not at all unique, either, to Afghanistan. When you follow the history of any successful guerrilla type war, you can see the same pattern. One example is the Tet offensive in Vietnam (January-February 1968) that resulted in a heavy battlefield defeat for the Communist forces, yet sufficiently unnerved America and its allies that they lost the will to continue the conflict. Another example is the Algerian War of Independence. During that conflict (1954 - 1962), the FLN suffered a decisive military defeat; yet in the process of handing out that military defeat, the French nation lost its will to keep up the charade in Algeria.
Such "low-intensity" conflicts can never be won by military means alone. That seems to be a lesson the USA, in particular, has failed to learn over and over again.
The British Empire, during its time, achieved some notable victories in Afghanistan. In the Second Afghan War of 1878-1880, Lord Roberts won a brilliant victory at Peiwar Kotal. Later, with a 10,000 man force, he carried out an epic 300 mile forced march to lift the siege of Kandahar - an event which was concluded by yet another decisive battlefield victory. However, by that time, the British at least had the smarts enough not to attempt to colonise the country. Their forces were withdrawn, and from that point onwards, Britain used more subtle means to advance its interests in Afghanistan.
withdrawal is not defeat, but nice try. We could have held the land of goat herders indefinitely, but apparently Ole lunch bucket Joe had other ideas.
You can crow all you want about “defeats” but the Japanese showed how soft your people are and America pushed those same Japs back onto their island for good.
Just a guy Nobody is crowing. Far from it. Our forces and young men and women have died as well.
No one has ever "held" Afganistan and no one ever will.
It's all about the geography.
(NB you pushed the Japs back by nuking them. Now that is nothing to "crow" about).
FFghost
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