SEE THE REAL FACE OF THE WAR IN IRAQ, SEE THE HORROR

by justhuman 102 Replies latest social current

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    Abandon why should I debate that with you? I don't presume to know what the attitudes of Europe are and I didn't disagree with you that:

    SOME Americans DO have a problem admitting their country can be at fault. I don't know what you do to kids when they are at school, but it is effective, as patriotism is a horse of a different colour in the USA.

    I lived with an Airforce officer for the first 13 years of my life who told us that if he had to choose between his family or his country he would choose his country....I KNOW some Americans are rabid patriots from first hand experience....I have also lived and associated with JW's who are the complete opposite of this....I have also lived in various states in the US and experienced first hand all the shades of gray in-between these two extremes. And that is what I feel Simon is missing....all the shades of gray....but if he feels comfortable lumping a VERY large group of people together and slapping a label on them based on media (lol the same media that apparently feeds us lies about the war) then that is his prerogative, but I do personally take offence to it as I feel that due to some of my views I am being put in that class. I therefore told him how I felt, being the loud, blunt outspoken American that I am

    lol and stereotypes are stereotypes and prejudice is prejudice regardless of whether is it toward someone of a different race, gender or nationality......

  • Xena
    Xena

    Darn it all I didn't check to see if tyydyy was logged on before I posted....that was me..

    *sigh* an opps just seems to detract so much from your post, doesn't it???

  • Zep
    Zep

    if cnn is anti-war, i'd hate to think what some segments of the australian media is. Pro-saddam apologists, i suppose. All I can say the comparison between US media here and segments of own media is rather large.

    The best US media I find is Frontline, and the news hour with Jim lehrer...which has fallen into line as of late, and has been pretty wussy. I'd certainly rather watch BBC to cnn anyday. Cnn is high on highrockets and real-time events...not much debate though. Comparing US programs like meet the press, and the news hour with Australian programs like lateline, 7:30 report, Insight. Well...there is no comparison, the level of debate and tough questions asked is far superior here than what I've seen on mainstream media outlets. And NBC is just bullshit...

    Down here in Australia we have a public tv service called sbs. You get all different media from around the world. I watched it on sunday morning for near 3 hours. On it i got Greek news, russian news, frrench news, spanish news. Couldn't understand what was being said too much, unless some english guy was talking, but it was so watchable because there so much more of the bloody horror of war than what im seeing on cnn, abc etc etc. One reporter was running around with iraqi troops in baghdad. Hospistals in bagdad in gorey detail. Certainly seemed a lot different to cnn from my angle anyhowz.

    I guess it all comes down to perspective!

  • Trauma_Hound
    Trauma_Hound
    Goodbye, Simon Hound.

    Ahhh poor baby, can't take the heat, when you spread it out, kind of like the stupid thread you started about some guys trying to take out, you posted in Current Affairs. I blew holes in it, with the admittance by the author that it was all fiction. Kind of interesting you would mention me, in a thread, I didn't even post in, till now.

  • COMF
    COMF
    Listening to some people reminds me so much of the Watchtower and it's followers - anything and everything is justified and "explained".

    I KNOW you're not talking about me, Simon. Not if you've read any of my comments (admittedly few and far between) regarding this war.

    BG: my comments were logical responses to your post. No, it does not come across as neutral. Perhaps you're not expressing the neutrality you hold in your mind well enough on paper to convey it to the reader. But I can't take time to dissect what you and I said and give a word-by-word explanation... so have it your way.

    Regarding "THE REAL FACE OF WAR IN IRAQ": here's an addition you won't see from our originating poster.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    I seen those photos myself and maybe no one can say for sure if they were directly inflicted by US bombs. The point is that is what war is all about. We have all being desensitized into thinking war is so glamorous.

    So who is behind this aggression?? I found this article about Israel’s having a real interest in this war.

    I srael Sets Sights on Iraq War Strategic Gains
    Mon April 7, 2003 10:54 AM ET
    By Jeffrey Heller

    JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Ask Prime Minister Ariel Sharon about the U.S.-led military campaign in Iraq and the former general will quickly shoot back it's not Israel's war.

    But watching events unfold from the low-profile position it has staked out at the behest of its guardian U.S. ally, Israel quietly stands to reap strategic benefits from the crushing of a long-time enemy.

    They include, Israeli strategic analysts said on Monday, an end to any future Iraqi nuclear threat and a possible move by other Arab enemies to avoid confrontation with Israel now that its best friend has muscled its way into the neighborhood.

    "The war will influence the behavior of other potential rivals of Israel, especially Iran, Syria and (the Lebanese guerrilla group) Hizbollah," predicted retired general Shlomo Brom of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv.

    "It is clear to them that if they do not behave, they could be the next target of the United States," he told Reuters.

    Brom noted that Hizbollah, which is backed by Iran and Syria, had already shown "very cautious behavior during the current crisis."

    Before the Iraq war, Israeli newspapers headlined fears Hizbollah would respond to a Gulf conflict by firing missiles at Israel, effectively opening a northern front that would tax an Israeli army confronting a Palestinian uprising for statehood.

    TRADITIONAL ENEMY

    Israel has also traditionally looked warily toward the east, where it has seen Iraq as a threat and a military backstop for the Jewish state's long-time foe, Syria.

    "Iraq has participated in all the wars against Israel," said Ephraim Inbar, director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at Bar-Ilan University near Tel Aviv.

    "(Iraqi President Saddam Hussein) attempted to develop nuclear weapons...(and) developed long-range missiles -- he already sent a few 12 years ago," he said, referring to Scud attacks that Iraq launched against Israel in the 1991 Gulf War.

    "He is a declared enemy of the Jewish state and helped Palestinian terrorist groups," Inbar added. Iraq has been paying $25,000 to families of Palestinian suicide bombers, money which Israel says encourages attacks in its city centers.

    Iraq's neighbor to the east, Iran, is widely viewed in Israel as a long-term threat. Teheran's nuclear reactor program, which Iranian leaders say is peaceful, has raised Israeli concern.

    "The United States will be able to apply more effective pressure on (Iran) to stop this (nuclear) project," Brom said. "This will be of great strategic benefit to Israel."

    PEACE DIVIDEND

    In the run-up to the Iraq war, senior Israeli officials pointed to a peace dividend, saying the conflict could trigger a "regional earthquake" that would weaken Islamic militants and strengthen what they called Arab pragmatists.

    Inbar noted the 1991 Gulf War was followed several months later by a historic Middle East peace conference in Madrid that set the stage for interim peace deals between Israel and the Palestinians.

    "The Arabs came to the negotiating table in order to please America," he said. "We may see a similar scenario."

    But Brom said Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak may not have been far off the mark in comments he made to Egyptian soldiers last week about an Iraq war aftershock.

    "Instead of having one (Osama) bin Laden, we will have 100 bin Ladens," Mubarak said, referring to the Saudi-born fugitive Islamic militant leader blamed by the United States for the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

    Brom said increased frustration within Arab society over U.S. actions in Iraq "can boost recruitment into terrorist organizations such as bin Laden's or Islamic groups."

    http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2521529&fromEmail=true

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Another Idiot Mouths off: : Since the media in U.S show nothing about the war in Iraq, Uh, live footage doesn't count? Idiot rambles on: :..and Bush's administration censor everything that is "bad' for the puplic, here are some shocking photos of how Bush is setting FREE the Iraqi people. Similar view of how Watchtower's God will treat everyone who disagrees with them in Armageddon.

    Uh, please explain in detail (and provide some FACTS) that the Bush Administration somehow "censors" what is if really happening? Can you do that? Thought not. More drivel: : Bush does NOT care about the Iraqi people. Uh, facts, please? Liberal-assed opinions don't count. Even more un-documented bullshit: : The only think he cares it is Iraq's OIL. Uh, facts, please? Liberal-assed opinions don't count. Lies, phrased in the form of fact: : He never cared about the lifes of the innocent children that he's "brave" pilots bombed, while they were in the hospitals or in their houses, or in the shelters.

    Uh, facts, please? Liberal-assed opinions don't count. : THIS IS THE REAL FACE OF THE WAR, THIS WHAT THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE

  • http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2003/pics/iraqvic1.jpg
  • http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2003/pics/iraqvic2.jpg
  • http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2003/pics/iraqvic5.jpg

    : AND AFTER BUSH THINK'S THAT HE IS A CHRISTIAN!!!
  • At least Bush is not a liar. You are. BTW, David Icke is an asshole, and his arguments are just the same kind of arguments that Communists and Nihilists make. If you believe his shit, what does that make you, then? A Communit, a Nihilist, or a total asshole? Or even the worst person in the worst human condition: a fan of Ted Turner, Jane Fonda, or (shudder) "CNN?"

    Farkel

  • dedalus
    dedalus
    Uh, facts, please? Liberal-assed opinions don't count.

    I agree, and in the same measure, conservative-assed opinions don't count. Anyone who adamantly calls the invasion a "liberation" and keeps a straight face is doing the same thing your average scarlet-faced protestor does when he yells about oil without a solitary fact to substantiate his vitriol. On another note, I watched a documentary about Rwanda tonight. In one hundred days 800,000 people were slaughtered, a massacre on a scale that Iraq can't begin to touch, a genocide more rapid, if less prolonged, than Hitler's campaign against the Jews. The United States used a veto to help slow UN intervention. Different (democratic!) administration back then. My point? Self-interest plays a role in governmental decision making, regardless of party lines. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad. Either way, there's good reason to be dubious of the administration's altruistic rhetoric nowadays. I understand where the cynicism and "no blood for oil" rhetoric comes from, even if it is sloppily articulated sometimes. Anyway, the answer isn't that Bush is a hero now and Clinton was a coward then. Rwanda wasn't important, economically, the way Iraq is now, to this self-driven entity called America. There are other incentives motivating the administration. But liberating Iraq isn't one of them -- logically, historically, it doesn't make sense. Dedalus

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    xena;

    Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, what I am saying is that you are convinced that there is no major difference between the way patriotism is expressed in American as compared to Europe. I say there is. Is this a correct interpretation of your viewpoint? Please note my definition of my viewpoint.

    That's why I mentioned DATA; there are plenty of resources to draw from, surveys for example. I could produce data to support my argument, and you could produce data to support yours.

    If you can't be bothered defending your opinion with some facts, then fine, no problem.

    But, if you can't defend your opinion with facts, that is all it is, and opinion, just like mine. It doesn't matter whether my opinion upsets or annoys you ('cause some of what you've said is essentially "I don't LIKE you saying that it annopys ME) or whether your opinion annoys or upsets me. They're opinions, and as we all know, opinions are like assholes.

    As such you can say it is prejudice, but that word's definition contains words like preconceived, and phrases like leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge and an irrational attitude of hostility , so unless you can prove my attitude is formed without just grounds, you saying that is just you saying that, a cheap shot to discredit me UNLESS you're willing to prove I don't have sufficient grounds, which is why I'm offering you the opportunity to have a proper debate.

    Stereotype is less emotive a word; something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment. As such, the bit I underline is fine; anyone who says they do not constantly go through life using stereotypes as defined by the underlined sentence is lying; our brains strength and weakness is its ability to act as a pattern matcher. When stereotypes are NOT oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment, they are actually useful; stereotypes are stereotypes because they are usually that way, the old 80/20 rule, although in the particular case we're discussing I think it's probably a 60/40 thing.

    So, defend your opinion or not, I don't mind either way, as I'm very confident that I can succesfully defend mine.

    (all word definitions Mirriam Webster)

  • Zep
    Zep

    Heres the transcript of a story carried last week on the Australian public tv program 'four corners'. It deals media spin and the propaganda war. Four corners is probably the equivalent of front line in the US

    http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2003/transcripts/s814963.htm

    and heres last nights program, that I missed, just for the hell of it. It deals with outcome of this war.

    http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2003/transcripts/s814963.htm

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