I think the reason Simon is singling out the USA from that list is because USA started the war in Iraq, not any of the other countries.
patriotism blinds people to facts, unfortunately. So sad.
WoMD ... so where are they?
by Simon 865 Replies latest social current
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reporter
Good points guys...
will-
We can split hairs and say the US didn't actually supply the "mustard gas" but they did approve of the shipment of cemicals used in the manufacturing of mustard gas.
well, that certainly goes directly against this quote from cnn (that i already provided):
Alcolac paid a fine in 1989 under U.S. law for one charge of exporting thiodiglycol, a chemical that could be used to make mustard gas
if the u.s. approved of these shipments, then why would they fine the companies? i think youre confusing anti-american propaganda with facts.
Well now. That just proves that the U.S. CIA thugs supplying the materials and technology were breaking their OWN laws on export of the components of mustard gas. They conducted themselves above the law and were co-conspirators to have corporations break export law. A slap-on-the wrist-fine was probably just for show, the profits on this sale would surely be worth the price of the contracts...
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Simon
I think the reason Simon is singling out the USA from that list is because USA started the war in Iraq, not any of the other countries.
It was just to answer the claim that the USA had not supplied chamical weapons when of course we know they had.
of course other countries supplied arms too including the UK. I think all those responsible should be prosecuted.
One thing I find kind of ironic is claims that only cultures or raw materials were supplied and so on as if these don't matter ... and yet if even the hint of a vial of something is found then the claims of "WoMD have been found!!" go up.
Keep the same rules.
Don't call something a WoMD one minute and then call it something else the next. If you want to claim that Iraq had WoMD then by the same argument, the USA was selling WoMD to a KNOWN sadistic dictator.
Why isn't everyone calling for the heads of those responsible? Is political alliegence a cause of blindness?
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back2dafront
Is political allegiance a cause of blindess?
The question we all know the answer to but nobody ever answers. I would LOVE to see any right-winger/pro-war/bush supporter person answer this honestly.
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Simon
Interesting article:
Defusing the smoking gun How did Colin Powell get so much wrong about Iraq? http://www.msnbc.com/news/951502.asp?0cv=CB20
The best case that the administration ever made on the issue was Secretary of State Colin Powell’s briefing before the U.N. Security Council last Feb. 5, shortly before the war. Powell introduced the briefing as “an accumulation of facts and disturbing patterns of behavior” that “demonstrate that Saddam Hussein and his regime have made no effort to disarm” and, in fact, “are concealing their efforts to produce more weapons of mass destruction.”
Months later, news articles reported that Powell had spent several days at CIA headquarters in Langley, Va., looking over the intelligence, and that he put only the strongest evidence in his briefing, tossing out many claims — for instance, the business about uranium-shopping in Niger — that he considered flimsy, if not fraudulent.
Yet in hindsight, his best stuff now looks pretty thin. The four “chemical bunkers,” which he showed in overhead spy photos, have since been scoured to a fare-thee-well and come up dry. Powell also made much of aluminum tubes, which he said could be used as centrifuges for enriching aluminum and thus constituted proof that Saddam remained “determined to acquire nuclear weapons.” Even back in February, Powell conceded that some intelligence analysts thought the tubes were meant for conventional artillery rockets, though he added, “It strikes me as quite odd that the tubes are manufactured to a tolerance that far exceeds U.S. requirements for comparable rockets.” Now, it doesn’t seem odd at all; indeed, the tolerances turn out to be exactly the same as those of conventional artillery tubes made in Italy.
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Yizuman
I had posted pictures here on this forum showing victims of Mustard gas as well as smallpox gas and other variations Saddam used during the 20 year war between Iran and Iraq and gassed Kurdish victims in Northern Iraq as well.
One of the Iraqi officials (Chemical Ali) admitted on the news in the late 1980s that he did gas 100,000 Kurdish Villagers, but denied he gassed 200,000, stating that the numbers was off by 100,000.
I still have the pictures on my hard drive back in storage. When I get outta of the mission and get my own place, I will repost the pics. Be warned, they are not pretty!
Yiz
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dubla
simon-
ah, the famous bait and switch. so you got called on your little fabrication about the u.s. supplying mustard gas to saddam, and now you want to talk about anthrax? the majority of what youve given as your "proof" there, were articles detailing deliveries of anthrax (and similar samples) to iraq, which is already known as fact by all, and i have no desire to argue against them (which by the way, it was perfectly legal at the time for iraq to have such samples, just as the majority of countries around the world do. using them in weapons is a different story). i suppose if your argument now is that saddam gassed the kurds with anthrax, then kudos on proving me wrong, lol.
as far as the links that do talk of chemical weapons......my poor boy, if you took these articles at face value as "fact", i am honestly embarrassed for you. personally, i wouldve taken you for smarter than that, but perhaps you are just so blinded by your personal agenda that you cant tell obvious propaganda when you see it (and yet youll scream and cry about how bad fox news is ). ill give some examples from your links that sound, er, less than credible.
from the link on: USA SOLD IRAQ WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
SECRET DEAL
The US Defence Secretary, Donald H. Rumsfeld, is a strong supporter of president Bush's plan to invade Iraq, yet a few years ago he personally helped to supply Iraq with biological and chemical weapons!
Donald H. Rumsfeld attended a secret meeting with Saddam Hussein in Iraq on behalf of the US government in December 1983, and agreed to sell Iraq weapons of mass destruction and arranged a loan to give Saddam Hussein the money to buy them. At that time, Iraq was using weapons of mass destruction against its neighbours, and the US not only allowed this but actively supported it.oh yes, rumsfeld attended a "secret meeting" (not secret enough for this savvy reporter though), and agreed to sell iraq wmd....etc. surely you are intelligent enough to recognize a nonsense statement when you see it, arent you? i was very curious to see the source behind this fabrication, so i skipped to the bottom of his article. youll be amazed at what i found:
Washington Post" newspaper article (USA)
Title: "U.S. had key role in Iraq build up"
Author: Michael Dobbs
Date: 30 Dec 2002
Page: front page
"Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an 'almost daily' basis in defiance of international conventions."so from this, point "a", he somehow got to point "b": the secret meeting where we agreed to sell saddam wmd!! genius! you do realize how bad you kill your own credibility by using this, dont you?
from the link on: COVER STORY: How he US armed Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons
While the August 18 NYT article added new details about the extent of US military collaboration with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during Iraq's 1980-88 war with Iran, it omitted the most outrageous aspect of the scandal: not only did Washington turn a blind-eye to the Hussein regime's repeated use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers and Iraq's Kurdish minority, but the US helped Iraq develop its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.
when i read this, i was very interested to find out just how we helped them build their chemical weapons program (i thought perhaps this was indeed your proof that the u.s. government supplied the mustard gas to saddam).....so i read on, searching for this amazing evidence. i read on, and on, and on (the whole article is basically a biased version of the iran-iraq war story).....finally i found the evidence provided:
A 1994 US Senate report revealed that US companies were licenced by the commerce department to export a “witch's brew” of biological and chemical materials, including bacillus anthracis (which causes anthrax) and clostridium botulinum (the source of botulism). The American Type Culture Collection made 70 shipments of the anthrax bug and other pathogenic agents.
The report also noted that US exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare facilities and chemical warhead filling equipment. US firms supplied advanced and specialised computers, lasers, testing and analysing equipment.
again, you can see this is nothing more than propaganda, surely? (im trying to give the benefit of the doubt that maybe you didnt actually read this nonsense before you posted it)........so supposedly this senate report "noted" that we sent saddam "plans for chemical and biological warfare facilities and chemical warhead filling equipment"!! holy cow, how was this info surpressed? i searched and searched for the source of this new evidence....guess what? no sources provided. oh well, dead end...i guess we can just take it as fact without further research, eh? thats good enough for me chap!
i couldnt get into the last link you provided (page cannot be displayed), so perhaps thats where your glorious proof awaits me (i highly doubt it). ZERO of the information you provided showed any proof of the u.s. government supplying saddam with mustard gas agents (hmm....maybe because it never happened?). why cant you just admit that you either a) fabricated, or b) made a mistake? is it above you? you and william are quite the characters.....what a tangled web we weave.........
btw, did you bother to read the cnn article i posted? if so, whats your take on it? does it look to you like the majority of the precursors came from u.s. companies, or otherwise? and according to the article (and allegations), how many of them came directly from the u.s. government?
one last thing:
I think the reason Simon is singling out the USA from that list is because USA started the war in Iraq, not any of the other countries.
It was just to answer the claim that the USA had not supplied chamical weapons when of course we know they had.
you singled out the u.s. to begin with, which is why the claim was ever made (by me) concerning chemical weaopns.....if you need links to your own posts, let me know. why would you single out one country? like i told william, it shows your agenda.
aa
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KGB
Well first of all why is this thread still going? Has'nt everyone got it that there are no WMD's ? It was a crock of crap to begin with. This is all old news now we rarely even hear about it on the news it's so old. What is anyone going to do about the lies anyways ? Nothing !! because noone cares to step up and say this is the final straw. Today unlike in the 70's when Nixon was impeached for his deceit the backbone has disapeared. Our countries have no more backbone, everyone is scared to do anything or they just plain don't give a crap. Listen Bush lied to americans and he lied to Tony Blair. Hell I thought that after papa Bush was in office this country had learned there lessons but I guess not !!!!!!
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KGB
And one other thing anyone who tries to use the fact that Saddam killed 200,000 Kurds needs to go look at the record books because it was the USA that gave Saddam those weapons to use on the Kurds and it was also the USA who gave him permission to do so.......So don't blame Saddam for that one balme the USA...I am not saying that Saddam was a nice guy either but hell he has been in office since 1969 if we or anyone else really wanted him out of there that bad it would of been done a long time ago.
So I guess if China or North Korea did not like Bush then I guess they should have full right to come over here and kill all of you ..Is that how it is supposed to work ?
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Simon
While most of the world can see that there are no WoMD some people like Dubla refuse to accept it or admit that they have been lied to by their government. He therefore tries to pick up on any little mistake and start arguing over odd words instead of looking at the more important bigger picture - were the reasons for going to war justified? No - they were not.