by Simon 865 Replies latest social current
Indeed.
A dragging of a 'red herring' over the arguement ; directing attention away from the discussion itself.
A true sign of false argumentation.
Some people are just not prepared to admit that sometimes their 'leaders' get things wrong. Maybe Dubs would be better living in North Korea.
... and dubla: I suggest YOU go back and re-read my original post on this topic:
We were told by the US and UK that Iraq had terrible Weapons of Mass Destruction and they were a threat to us all.
You are doing the typical trick of trying to make it into an old 'anti-american' argument when it is not.
I get the impression that our UK government and Blair in particular is deparate to divert attention away from this issue and onto other news stories.
Again, I mention the UK
What do you think? Will they find WoMD? Does it matter? Did they just tell everyone whatever they needed to so they could have their war? Can leaders help being lying bastards or is a pre-requisite for office?
You haven't really answered the topic have you? You have continually skirted round things and attempted to change the subject, argue over wording etc...
To make it simple:
And one other thing anyone who tries to use the fact that Saddam killed 200,000 Kurds needs to go look at the record books because it was the USA that gave Saddam those weapons to use on the Kurds and it was also the USA who gave him permission to do so.......So don't blame Saddam for that one balme the USA...I am not saying that Saddam was a nice guy either but hell he has been in office since 1969 if we or anyone else really wanted him out of there that bad it would of been done a long time ago.
The USA did NOT supply the chemicals to Iraq. Nor did they supplied weapons to Saddam.
Saddam bought the chemicals directly from Turkey on the black market. Turkey has been the supplier for Saddam for many years. The country of Turkey has bought many defuntant chemicals and biological agents from Russia at the end of the cold war to offset the Russia economy. Then Turkey turned around and sold them to Iraq on the black market. Turkey also hates the Kurdish people and was letting Saddam do all the dirty work by killing them.
Also during the cold war when Russia was under the control of the Soviet Union, they have trained Saddam's Rupublican Guards and sold him tanks, weapons, and other ordanances. Saddam paid for them all. He was rich then and still was rich before the recent war. Even the scud missles was made in Russia. His warplanes are Russian made too.
China even came during the sanctions and helped repaired their many radar stations and upgrading their equiptment.
Why do you think Russia voiced their disproval of the US and their Allies ganging up against Saddam?
What's even more mind boggling is the fact that everyone who is against the war with Iraq are ignoring the fact that Saddam was a brutal dictator who killed an untold number of people at a whim simply because he didn't like them. He's a sick bastard that needed to be put out of power.
Everyone hasn't answered this question yet....Should we put Saddam back in power and apologize for invading his country?
Yiz
hamas-
Indeed.
A dragging of a 'red herring' over the arguement ; directing attention away from the discussion itself.
A true sign of false argumentation.
i wasnt trying to direct attention away from the bigger discussion here, i was simply interjecting my thoughts about an obvious fabrication made by simon and william. i hate to see people twist facts and not get called on it, its as simple as that. as far as the bigger discussion goes, theres no new news, and nothing really more to say on it that hasnt already been said, is there? if youd like to discuss something, id be happy to oblige.
simon-
what does your talking about the u.k. have to do with this issue? i was simply calling you out for your specific accusation, that being the u.s. "supplied the gas" that was used on the kurds. when i said you singled out the u.s. to begin with, i was referring to this specifc topic (not the entire thread)....hopefully that clears up that point for you. you singled out the u.s, when indeed, according to the allegations in the article i posted (that you refuse to read or respond to), the vast majority of the mustard gas precursors came from everywhere but the u.s., and exactly ZERO of the components came from the u.s. government. you twisted the facts, fabricated this bit about us supplying the gas, and i called you on it.....quite simple really.
You are doing the typical trick of trying to make it into an old 'anti-american' argument when it is not.
well, thats not a "typical trick" of mine, if you read back through my history....but i will call it when i see it. when you cried out about who "supplied the gas", i missed the part where you mentioned switzerland and singapore.......so maybe thats where i got the idea......im sure you meant to mention all the other parties though, probably just slipped your mind.
You haven't really answered the topic have you? You have continually skirted round things
i have skirted around absolutely nothing. in fact, why dont you review the first few pages of this thread. i responded to your first post POINT BY POINT, and it was in fact you that refused to answer the majority of my points on the topic.........you skirted enough for all of us, and its been your tactic the entire way through to ignore what you have no answer for. if youd like a list of specific examples, id be happy to take the time....its a LONG list.
now, ill answer your questions, even though you continually make a practice of ignoring mine.
Do you believe that the claims of WoMD made to legitimise the war were realistic?
yes i do. saddam admitted to having the weapons, and he couldnt show he destroyed them (quite a simple task, as blix said: mustard gas isnt marmalade, you should know what you did with it). we went to war because saddam refused to comply with the u.n. resolutions that were unanimously voted for (this is a fact no one can deny), and specifically called for action.
Why do you think that WoMD have not been found?
could be any number of reasons. they could be buried for all i know (if he can bury an entire air force, do you think he could bury some drums of mustard gas?). its possible they simply werent there in the quantities we believed, and saddam kept sanctions on his own country for no logical reason. its possible that every country in the world has flawed intelligence, and saddam never really made anything more dangerous than an apple pie. i wouldnt say the search is over, either. it took us how long to find their hidden airforce? what do you personally think is easier to hide, a mig 28, or some vx gas? saddam had a decade to figure out this end game, and im guessing he probably planned ahead.
Do you think it's possible that the USA and UK governments intentionally set out to decieve people?
its dissapointing to read a question like this, knowing that ive reiterated several times on this thread that i do believe every government intentionally sets out to decieve people. it shows me that you dont give me enough respect to actually read my posts, but instead youre already thinking of your next witty rebuttal and merely skimming through looking for ammunition. its unfortunate that you operate in this manner, but its not uncommon. to repeat, AGAIN, yes i do believe its not only possible, but undoubetly true.
aa
Yizuman:
>What's even more mind boggling is the fact that everyone who is against the war
>with Iraq are ignoring the fact that Saddam was a brutal
>dictator who killed an untold number of people at a whim simply because he didn't like them.
It is *not* a fact that "that everyone who is against the war with Iraq
are ignoring the fact that Saddam was a brutal dictator...".
It *is* a fact that most if not all right wingers simply can not move themselves beyond this Black/white reasoning:
"If you're against the US waging war against Iraq then you must be pro-Saddam".
It's simplistic *and* it's stupid...
Man can see there are some stiff necked rednecks her for sure. What really gets me is that there are people here who think that because some do not support G>W>Bush are un- american or if we do not support murder we are stupid or un-american. Well I am about as American as they get but I am aslo Christian American and no I do not support someone who tells lies in order to gain support and I do not support someone who decieves and I do not support someone who kills or mames little children, women and innocent men. And I think that those who do support those kind of things needs some counseling, and if you do support those kind of things then why are you not over there doing it yourselves. That is a JW style attitude and certainly like a politician...No man I do not support liars and no man I do not support murderers. DO YOU ? Some of you must if you support whats going today....
Yiz
"What's even more mind boggling is the fact that everyone who is against the war with Iraq are ignoring the fact that Saddam was a brutal dictator who killed an untold number of people at a whim simply because he didn't like them. He's a sick bastard that needed to be put out of power. "
I never ignored this. But, by international law, it's illegal for one country to invade another for these reasons. It's as simple as that.
You are just repeating the current line that is being fed to the public for justification of the invasion. You are also forgetting that over the yrs, since the cia was set up, the usa has set up and supported many regimes just like that, when it suited it.
SS
ssI never ignored this. But, by international law, it's illegal for one country to invade another for these reasons. It's as simple as thatI never ignored this. But, by international law, it's illegal for one country to invade another for these reasons. It's as simple as that
exactly thats why we invade for WMD. One way or another, why should that be so difficult to grasp?
Whats reallllllly mind boggling is 788 pages of arguing about the existance of them.
This thread has become interminable. It's going round and round in circles and doing no good whatsoever. I'm locking it.
Englishman.
