Atheism = self defeating. (page 22)

towerwatchman

Caedes

I just assumed that Stephenmyers was a sock puppet!

Had the same feelings about Darwin being the atheist messiah.

towerwatchman

Question, is Finklestein a proper representation of what an atheist is?

Finkelstein

Answer = Finkelstein is a proper representation of intellectual honesty positioned from acquired knowledge from applying and supporting the scientific method through examination of physical evidence.

Creationists positioned themselves or theorize on no evidence but hearsay alone.

towerwatchman

Finkelstien

Answer = Finkelstein is a proper representation of intellectual honesty positioned from acquired knowledge from applying and supporting the scientific method through examination of physical evidence.

And your post are proof of this. Better yet your avatar is a better representative of your social, and intellectual level.

Finkelstein

In view of the amount of information that refutes your claims and postulations on both of your recent thread topics it would thereby be an accepted conclusion that ..... towerwatchman = Defeated

StephenMyers

Towerwatman

What kind of information does DNA have? What kind of information must the origin of life researcher ‘explain the origin of’? Webster defines information as ‘the attribute inherent in and communicated by alternative sequences or arrangements of something that produces specific effects.’ A block of binary code in a software program is information. DNA contains alternative sequences of nucleotide bases that produce a specific effect; therefore DNA contains information. DNA sequences are improbable and specifically arranged to perform, this is functional information similar to CAD – CAM. Now the question becomes not what is the origin of life but the origin of biological information. Where did the information to build the first living organism come from? Let’s bring cause and effect. If an effect has only one known cause then the presence of the effect is enough to support the presence of the cause. The only known cause of information is intelligence.

This is a very interesting point I don't know if the only known cause is intelligence, but it's certainly probable that the formation of DNA didn't happen by chance.

cofty

Information in DNA is nothing but a metaphor.

Caedes

I just assumed that Stephenmyers was a sock puppet!

Had the same feelings about Darwin being the atheist messiah.

One can only assume that you didn't bother to look up the meaning of the phrase, it's what we call your other account.

Atheists don't have messiahs.

I'm not sitting on the fence, I view belief in god in the way I view belief in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.

Anony Mous

You need to stick to the subject matter, 'what is the known cause that generates or creates information'. And that would be intelligence. I am not discussing the origin of the universe.

You need to stick to the subject matter, the origin of the universe and the question on the origin of life is one and the same. You're trying to separate the origin of life with the origin of chemistry in a feeble attempt to make a point while I've already reasoned you through why you can't do such things.

You are just repeating the wrong question until someone agrees with your non-scientific viewpoint. I've already explained to you that there is no such thing as the generation or creation of new information in our known Universe, life is merely the arrangement of existing "information" in a particular sense, specific arrangements of things spontaneously happen in nature when entropy changes and will keep happening until the point all matter has reached equilibrium, that is true whether you accept it or not, the Universe doesn't care about your viewpoint.

Ask yourself - what is the most abstract definition of 'alive' you can come up with. Then see if you can find things in nature that don't truly match your definition but could still be considered alive. There is a range of grey area between what's classically alive (such as multi-celled organisms) and not-alive (viruses and single-celled organisms that are missing key parts of their cells) that the question stops making sense when you're trying to make the divide.

My question to you again: when does your intelligence (or deity) come into play between the Universe and the origin of life. What has 'he/she/it' created? Prove a clear separation between life and non-life chemistry before you make the argument of an interceder.

towerwatchman

cofty

Information in DNA is nothing but a metaphor.

Webster defines information as ‘the attribute inherent in and communicated by alternative sequences or arrangements of something that produces specific effects.’ A block of binary code in a software program is information, written in 0 and 1. DNA is a code written with four nucleotides A,T,C,G. Just like CAD-CAM which is computer software that is used to both design and manufacture of products, DNA is software written in DNA format then transcribed to RNA format and is used by the cell in the manufacture of proteins. Just like CAD CAM software is written in ‘alternative sequences or arrangements of something that produces specific effects’ = the production of X, DNA is written in “alternative sequences or arrangements of something that produces specific effects’ = the production of proteins.

Now the question moves from ‘what is the origination of life’, to ‘what is the origination of the information that created first life’. Using the same ‘ cause and effect’ principle used by Darwin, we can only conclude that the only known cause of information is intelligence.

Atheism = self defeating.

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