Atheism = self defeating.

by towerwatchman 315 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  towerwatchman

  to freemindfade

  why? because a bunch of bronze age goat herders said so? Sorry if you were being sarcastic and I didn't catch it lol

  The cause of the universe therefore must be a transcendent cause beyond the universe. It must be itself uncaused, because we have seen that an infinite series of causes is impossible. It must transcend space and time, since it created space and time, therefore it must be immaterial and nonphysical. And must be unimaginably powerful since it created all matter and energy and finally and must be a personal being, only a mind could fit the above description of the first cause. And it must be a personal being, because this is the only way to explain how a timeless cause can produce a temporal effect with a beginning like the universe. If the cause is impersonal and sufficient to produce its effect, then if the effect is there the cause must be there also.

  Now if the cause of the universe is permanently there and is timeless, why isn't the universe permanently there as well, why did the universe come into being, why isn't it as permanent as its cause? The answer to the problem must be that the clause is a personal being with free will, therefore His act of creating the universe is independent of any prior conditions; something spontaneous and new.
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  towerwatchman

  
  

  To cofty

  This thread will now proceed to many pages of Roman Catholic dogma. The words metaphysical and Sola scriptura will be repeated endlessly. Every request for evidence will be dismissed with an accusation of scientism.

  I suggest we stick to the theological assumptions intended by the OP

  I believe we should bring science into the discussion.
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  TD

  First may we define our terms. The word Atheism comes literally from the Greek....

  Genetic fallacy. Words are defined by their current and correct usage within any given language, not by their etymological roots.
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  towerwatchman

  To freemindfade

  Metaphysics may have the word “physics” in it, but more important is the word “meta”. Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy, physics is applying math to the real world. Physics has real world applications, metaphysics is speculation. When we treat speculation like it’s science, we create pseudoscience and confusion ensues.

  Let’s ask the leading expert.

  In this lecture, I would like to discuss whether time itself has a beginning, and whether it will have an end. All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology. Yet it is now taken for granted… But if your theory disagrees with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, it is in bad trouble. In fact, the theory that the universe has existed forever is in serious difficulty with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The Second Law, states that disorder always increases with time. Like the argument about human progress, it indicates that there must have been a beginning. Otherwise, the universe would be in a state of complete disorder by now, and everything would be at the same temperature… The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago. The beginning of real time, would have been a singularity, at which the laws of physics would have broken down.

  The Beginning of Time. A Lecture by Stephen Hawking.
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  Finkelstein

  And must be unimaginably powerful since it created all matter and energy and finally and must be a personal being, only a mind could fit the above description of the first cause. And it must be a personal being.

  OK after reading that I'm officially awarding towerwatchman the royal fruit cake award.

  
  

  I'm out of here .
  
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  cofty

  Sadly I doubt that you will take the time to read this carefully and reflect on it. - Cofty

  I was right.
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  towerwatchman

  To LoveUniHateExams

  Atheism = self defeating - bollocks! More like, atheism = accepting life, warts 'n all.

  Atheism / Theism deals with the issue of a supreme being, accepting or rejecting life can apply to both.
• 

  John_Mann

  2- By "prove" I mean establish beyond all reasonable doubt.

  By this standard the mainstream definition of atheism is invalid.

  There's PROBABLY no God. - Richard Dawkins.

  Actually by this standard all definitions in human history are invalid.

  BTW how can one accept this very standard as being beyond all reasonable doubt?

  This standard doesn't sounds cultish to you?
  
  
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  punkofnice

  
  
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  cofty

  I have honestly not got the first clue what you mean John. My definition is the very epitome of reasonable and yet you find some pretty excuse to find fault.

  I am weary of trying to converse with others who appear so disingenuous.