What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?

by Vanderhoven7 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • no-zombie
    no-zombie

    When I read NotFormer's comment I had to laugh, as there's a Monty Pythons sketch about being oppressed.

    But seriously, there are problems in the Jehovah's Witness movement; that's for sure. However, if you do a honest ranking of religions worldwide according to the real risk of physical and psychological harm, we are not going to be high up on the list.

    A real cult is what is practiced in North Korea.

  • NotFormer
    NotFormer

    How about: "Jehovah's Witnesses are a high control religious group from which many people emerge emotionally and psychologically scarred"?

    It's true that being high control and religious doesn't make it necessarily "a cult". The above mentioned government is a good example of a secular cult. A lot of people on the Amway subreddit refer to Amway as a cult. It could be argued that the above mentioned anti-cult guy seems to believe that voting the same way that his former cult leader probably would have in the last US election might make you a cultist.

    The word "cult" is possibly overused to the extent that it has become meaningless. That doesn't mean that the JW religion isn't still a high pressure religion that causes damage to many of its adherents.

  • no-zombie
    no-zombie

    But Notformer ... how many is 'many of its adherents' and what 'damage' are we talking about?

    If we are talking about those who get disfellowshiped, as an ex-Elder, I can say most of those people just reaped what they sowed. But if we add the people who leave because of being 'stumbled' to those disfellowshiped, the total annually is not great percentage compared to the number of people who are actually quite happy to be a Witness.

    And when we talk about the harm or damage being a Jehovah's Witnesses, you have to ask literally what is the severity of it. And while I'm not trying to minimize the feelings of others, there are a lot of young Karens out in this world who claim 'pain and suffering' from getting cold coffee at their cafe'. In my generation, we understood that bad things happens, but we get over it and move on ... even if you've ended up being an amputee.

    Yes in a perfect world, there should be no harm done to anyone, particularly in a religion that claims to follow the loving message of Jesus. But in the real world, full of imperfect people, injustice will occur and people will be hurt.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    No zombie...The notion that people whose behavior is not up to a group's standard or have different religious beliefs should be separated from friends and family, is sickening. Your suggestion that they 'reaped what they sowed' is more than disturbing. The church's controls are not just in its dictation of morality; its controls dictate family relationships, friendships and self-worth. For every person that has left or been expelled a dozen others' lives were affected, in many cases in profound ways, parents losing children, and children losing parents for examples. I don't know your experience, but millions of people carry scars that last for lifetimes. My family included.

    As regards the label 'cult'. Use it if you feel it fits, many do. Some feel the church is no more harmful than others, such as the Mormons or Pentecostals. That may be true. Then go read posts about the pain and damaged lives those churches inflicted. No, these churches do not drink poison kool aid, but they do ruin lives and are responsible for many suicides.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath
    stan livedeath2 years ago

    isnt the phrase " conservative christian sect" more appropriate ?

    5 dislikes !

    But i cant claim credit for that phrase

    i was only quoting the phrase Simon wrote in another thread sometime back.

  • no-zombie
    no-zombie

    So Peacefullpete ...


    While I did say that there was problems in the Organization ... are you telling me that we shouldn't disfellowship pedophiles, unrepentant adulterers or willful thieves? I consider it completely just that a pedophile is removed from the congregation. And yes that person has 'reaped what they sowed'.

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    I think it is the aspect of behavior and information control that makes them a cult.

    Sure, they're not as bad as the worst cults. If I cut my finger, no one says "that's not a cut, the finger is still attached." It's not as bad as it can be, but it's still a cut. The WTS can be a cult without being murderous brutes. Although the line might be a bit blurry when it comes to denying blood transfusions.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Yes, I have belonged to a number of conservative Christian churches over the years, including Baptist, Pentecostal, Alliance, Anglican, Bible Student and Brethren churches. My family and I have benefited from each one.

    No one shunned me or said that I was not a Christian for changing affiliation. I still have friends in every one. Why? Because we all recognize that the church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual body, holy and inseparable from our Lord.

    Jesus will not ask on His return, " Which church did you attend?" No He will ask, "Did you love me? Did you serve me? Did you feed my sheep? Did you clothe the poor? etc.

    In one Brethren church I attended for years, they disfellowshipped a brother for ongoing fraudulent activity. He had to appologize to many and was not permitted to preach or teach until he was reinstated. He still came to church and no one was mandated to shun him while he was disfellowshipped.

    The religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, on the other hand, is a counterfeit christian cult and a dangerous one at that.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete
    ... are you telling me that we shouldn't disfellowship pedophiles, unrepentant adulterers or willful thieves? I consider it completely just that a pedophile is removed from the congregation. And yes that person has 'reaped what they sowed'.

    You're being deliberately obtuse....I don't give a crap if my sister screws up her marriage. People do stuff like that, some more than others. She is always welcome at my house.

    And if someone has a personality or behavior so unpleasant I don't wish to be around them, it's up to me to decide how to deal with it.

    Churches have every right to determine who is a member of their club. They don't have a right to decide for me how I interact with them on a personal basis. That is what labels the JWs a high control sect or cult.

    Your use of the term, 'unrepentant' suggests your heart is still, after all these years, sold on the idea of judging others in personal matters. My life, and mine only, is for me to direct, not that of others.

  • NotFormer
    NotFormer

    "...are you telling me that we shouldn't disfellowship pedophiles...?"

    Yes, they should. More often than not, they don't. Thanks to the two witness rule. Which was implemented to protect the reputation of the WT at all costs, including the cost to actual justice. That's some pretty cultic behaviour, right there.

    "I consider it completely just that a pedophile is removed from the congregation."

    As would we all, should it happen, which it often doesn't, and the victim is expected to continue to attend with their abuser. That's some twisted cultic logic right there. And true justice involves actually calling the police; you know: the actual justice system! Not involving the secular authorities to protect the religion's reputation is again pretty cultic.

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