LUHE if you believe setting up strawman arguments represent solid joined up thinking I feel for you. What recognized source claims the immigration crises is wholly good. It's an oxymoronic statement. Immigration crises and wholly good.
What is your opinion of the news media?
by minimus 491 Replies latest social current
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bohm
The West can bomb terrorists in Iraq; Russia can bomb terrorists in Syria.
Can Russia also bomb hospitals? That's what they are doing.
The ones that refuse to accept the Syrian regime can be wiped out along with the various terrorist groups.
Great plan. Putin approves. Bombs and mass graves. Chechnya v. 2.0.
Then in the future Russia and allies can look into a softening of the Syrian regime or some kind of transition to secular democracy.
Now you are saying "allies", that is presumably by giving Putin Crimea and assume this will lead to a stable alliance; no past experience suggest this will be the case as the current situation has grown out of exactly seeking a stable alliance with Putin (you recall the various talks between NATO and Russia 2004-2014?).
Can you explain what interest Putin or Assad should have in a secular democracy in Syria? He is currently well under way to destroy the democratic institutions in Russia and is working on undermining two democratic government in two European countries; in addition to this we had invasions of two European countries in 7 years and ongoing attacks against infrastructure.
Let me ask like this: Suppose Iran attacked two European countries in 7 years, as in actual attacks where tanks roll in and land is taken. Would your response be: Let's work with Iran?
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Simon
Let me ask like this: Suppose Iran attacked two European countries in 7 years, as in actual attacks where tanks roll in and land is taken. Would your response be: Let's work with Iran?
Are the majority of the populations Iranian?
How far back can we go for "ownership and sovereignty" to be established as correct and legitimate?
Should "someone" have to hand part of Texas back?
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LoveUniHateExams
Now you are saying "allies" - my post was an answer to your question 'how should the West work with Putin in Syria?', so the term 'allies' here would refer to the US, the EU, and other Western nations.
Can Russia also bomb hospitals? That's what they are doing - yes, I get it: both Putin and Assad are nasty bastards. But, here's the crucial point: Islamists are worse.
Before the Syrian uprising, gay Syrians were tolerated if they were very discreet. If they were open about it, they'd get a smack on the wrist and a nominal fine. But now, under Islamists, gay Syrians are killed.
Before the uprising, Christians, Druze, Allowites and Sunnis rubbed along together. Not anymore, thanks to the Syrian Islamist groups.
Again, before the Syrian uprising, there were schools, hospitals, libraries museums - good infrastructure.
I know Assad was, and still is, a very bad man but he kept some kind of stability and infrastructure.
And I'll say it again: the West has no moral or legal authority in Syria. None whatsoever.
Suppose Iran attacked two European countries in 7 years, as in actual attacks where tanks roll in and land is taken - are you trying to compare Putin's grab of Crimea with Iran invading European countries? Crimea has an ethnic Russian majority (>60%) and was once part of Russia. Krushchev gave it to Ukraine in 1953, to show good will between Russia and Ukraine!
Which European countries have Iranian majorities and were once part of Iran?!
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bohm
Simon:
Are the majority of the populations Iranian?
Let's assume not, though in terms of international law I don't think this is the kind of thing that should give you the right to stage an invasion/occupation of little green men/whatever we call it.
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bohm
LUHE: just as a small quiz re. Assad. Which Islamic regime and which Islamic terrorist organization is Assad aligned with?
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LoveUniHateExams
Which Islamic regime and which Islamic terrorist organization is Assad aligned with? - Iran. So?
In fact he's only aligned with Iran politically, not ideologically.
It's difficult to compare Iran invading a European country to Russia grabbing Crimea.
You see, a sound argument good be made for Crimea going back to Russia, for the reasons I mentioned above.
Iran has no claim on any part of Europe. Wrong continent, for starters.
If Iran invaded my country (UK) I'd hope our armed forces would blow them out of the water, obviously.
OTOH, Crimea's population has an ethnic Russian majority.
Of course, what Putin did was wrong/went about it in the wrong way.
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bohm
LUHE, you still haven't explained what the alliance with Russia would consist of...
Just to clarify: Russia intervene in Syria with a bombing campaign against the western-backed rebels with the goal of helping Assad, a pro-putin anti-democratic war criminal politically alligned with Iran and a terror organization. This campaign explicitly target civilians thereby deeping the humanitarian crisis.
your response: let's stand aside and let Assad wipe out the last pro-western anti-Islamic forces!
putins response: trollollollolol.
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Spoletta
I'm sure that if we step back and let Putin and Assad have their way, that peace and democracy will soon reign over the Middle East. With the money we save from not needing to ban immigrants, and not having to build up our military, we can easily afford the wall. Problems solved.
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talesin
Neener, neener, NEEner!
Fascinating! Carry on.