Romans 9:5

by aqwsed12345 72 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    @SeaBreeze, 🥰I didn't doubt it one bit. That's why I said "I'm sure you must believe!"🫶


    Regarding bearing witness to Jesus, one way we bear such witness to him is to imitate Jesus' life course. Here is what the scriptures say about how he finished his human life on earth...


    "After this, when Jesus knew that by now all things had been accomplished, in order to fulfill the scripture he said: “I am thirsty.” A jar was sitting there full of sour wine. So they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop stalk and held it up to his mouth. When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and bowing his head, he gave up his spirit."


    When Jesus said "It has been accomplished!" he wasn't just talking about fulfilling the scripture about the sour wine. What else was he referring to?


    The answer is recorded for us at John chapter 17...


    "Jesus said: "I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do...I have made your name manifest..."


    Jesus fully accomplished being a faithful witness of Jehovah even to the death. When we are faithful witnesses of Jesus we will also be faithful witnesses of Jehovah, like Jesus said further on in John chapter 17...


    “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and these have come to know that you sent me. I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”


    It is not our "label" that identifies us as "Jesus' witnesses" or "Jehovah's witnesses" - it is our Love that identifies us as witnesses of both the Father and the Son.


    1 John 2 says "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. But whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."


    There are those who acknowledge that Jesus came as the Christ among many denominations in the world, and some who acknowledge that Jesus came as the Christ are not part of any denomination. When Jesus comes, he will sort all those things out. 1 John 2 continues...


    "As for you, what you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in union with the Son and in union with the Father."


    What is it that we heard from the beginning? Love.


    "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”


    Those who have love for the whole association of "brothers" ("brothers" meaning those who acknowledge that Christ came in the flesh), regardless of wherever those brothers may be found, are the ones who are truly witnesses of Jesus and of Jehovah.


    "For God is my witness of how I am longing for all of you with such tender affection as Christ Jesus has. And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more..."

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    I'm curious, how do you reconcile the verse "he is greater than I" with the verse that says that the name of Jesus "is above every name" ?

    Do you believe both verses are true?

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    "For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." (1 Corinthians 15:25-28)

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    "how do you reconcile the verse "he is greater than I" with the verse that says that the name of Jesus "is above every name" ?


    Do you believe both verses are true?"


    You already know I believe the entire Bible is true.🙂 As Jesus said, "...the scripture cannot be nullified..."


    "Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." (Acts 4:12)


    Jesus was given his name by Jehovah.


    No one gave God His Name.


    The name of Jesus is above every other name given among men by which we must get saved. (Acts 4:12) But it is evident that this does not mean above the name of the One who subjects all things to him. (1 Corinthians 15:25-28)


    "...the scripture cannot be nullified..." (John 10:35)

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    @ Easy Prompt

    Here's the problem that you have - If Jesus has the highest name in the universe like scripture says, then why would he subject himself to the Father who has a lesser name? WT theology can't really account for that can it? Christian theology perfectly accomodates this however. I think you know how, you are just not ready to accept it yet.

    I'm curious how you would reconcile these two verses from the same writer:

    1 John 1: 8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1 John 5: 18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin

    How can both of these verses be true?

    Christian theology perfectly accomodates both of these scriptures by the way. How do you reconcile them?

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt
    "Here's the problem that you have..."


    Regarding problems, dear SeaBreeze, I am a homeschool teacher and I assign my kids a lot of math problems when we are on that subject of mathematics, so you could say that at times I have lots of "problems". But I don't have a problem with knowing Jesus is subject to Jehovah.


    "Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God."


    Do you like math problems? I enjoy math. God makes it so things fit. It's not complicated. 1+1+1=3. Math is cool.


    Do you like math jokes? (I copied some of these from a math joke website called beano.com...)


    "I had a big argument with my friend about fractions...Our opinions were divided!"


    Here's another one...


    "I hate arguments about fractions...They're so divisive!"


    Or how about this one...


    "I can't agree about fractions with some people...On this forum, it's really causing division!"


    🤣


    Sorry, I love silly math puns. Okay, back to the matter at hand...


    "WT theology can't really account for that can it?"


    Why do you keep bringing up WT theology? I already told you the WT people kicked me out because I don't equate WT theology with God's Word.


    "Christian theology perfectly accomodates this however. I think you know how, you are just not ready to accept it yet."


    That sounds like a quote from "Mission: Impossible"..."your mission, should you choose to accept it..."😆


    I'm all for accepting the truth. Are you alluding to the Trinity doctrine here? So far, there is no math problem on earth where 1+1+1=1. It just doesn't add up. It's an impossible mission. I've already rejected the bad math of the WT theology when they claimed that 1914 was some kind of "Christian theology". I'm not going to be accepting anybody else's bad math any time soon just because they put a label on it "Christian theology". But you can believe it if you want. I'll still love you.🙂💖


    "I'm curious how you would reconcile these two verses from the same writer:

    1 John 1: 8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1 John 5: 18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin

    How can both of these verses be true?"


    Here's an example: let's say that you, SeaBreeze, claim to be born again. If you are born again, then you will do your best to be led by the holy spirit and you will not purposely grieve that spirit by going out and planning to fornicate or worship idols or get drunk and drugged up or to try to purposely trick or trap another person in a spirit of competitiveness or pride. 1 John 5:18 says "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" or another rendition says "does not practice sin." That you, SeaBreeze, are a sinner and that you make mistakes is apparent by what is written at 1 John 1:8 where it says "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Sometimes we all make mistakes, like in math problems. That's why we all have to eat humble pie sometimes. Thus, SeaBreeze, it is possible for both of those verses to be true.


    But I think you already knew that both of those verses are true. Why were you asking me if you already knew?😁


    (By the way, do you like pie?)



  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    @Easy Prompt

    You have been indoctrinated in a bible cult for decades. Before that you grew up in an atheist home. This is why I challenge you. We are supposed to "make sure of all things".

    I'm curious how you would reconcile these two verses from the same writer:

    1 John 1: 8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1 John 5: 18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin

    Here's the rest of the verse:

    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Inserting the word "practice" doesn't help at all. Scripture is plain:

    Born Again Christians cannot sin. Yet, just a few verses before, scripture says that we are a liar if we say we don't sin.

    So, which is it? Does a NT believer sin or not? How do you get this to add up using your WT training?



  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    I already answered your question in the above post, but if you want me to "reconcile" them again for you...


    Christ was born of God, and he never sinned. 1 John 5:18. "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin."


    You, SeaBreeze, claim to be a NT believer, and yet you are misinterpreting Romans 9:5 because of not repenting over a basic math miscalculation. 1 John 1:8. "If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us."


    Thankfully math problems don't separate anyone from the Christ!


    "Who will file accusation against God’s chosen ones? God is the One who declares them righteous. Who will condemn them? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, more than that, the one who was raised up, who is at the right hand of God and who also pleads for us. Who will separate us from the love of the Christ? Will tribulation or distress or persecution or hunger or nakedness or danger or sword? Just as it is written: “For your sake we are being put to death all day long; we have been accounted as sheep for slaughtering.” On the contrary, in all these things we are coming off completely victorious through the one who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."


    (Good night for now, SeaBreeze - I'm going to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow we can do some more fun math problems.😊)

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Compare these two verses:

    1 John 1: 8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1 John 3: 9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    One verse says believers sin. A few verses later it says believers cannot sin. So which is it?

    Do you think it is possible that one verse is talking about your body, and the other verse is talking about a born again believers' new spirit - both of which are "you", individually and/or collectively?

    If not, please explain how a believer can both sin and "cannot sin" at the same time.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    What do you call friends who love math? Give up? Algebros! 😜


    "You keep trying to add the word "practice" as if this will make the problem smaller."


    They say "practice makes perfect", so if you keep practicing "1+1+1" you will get three eventually.


    It seems you're the one who keeps trying to make the problem "smaller". One is less than three. 1<3.


    (Goodnight, SeaBreeze.😊 )



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