Since he thinks it is so logical get him to explain some of the following. What did sharks, lions and other predators eat in the beginning before Eve sinned? Why did God design them with the abilities that they have to hunt? Have him reconcile the Ice Ages with their belief of the flood? How does he explain how Kangaroos survived the flood? How did they get to Noah in the Middle East? How did they return to Australia?
Help! Spouse thinks JW religion the most logical
by bittersweet 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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hooberus
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RunningMan
If he actually thinks that the JW religion is logical, then you might want to point out some of the logical fallacies that they have used to promote their ideas.
Yes, they use logic, but it is invalid logic.
A while ago, I did a writeup on the subject. It can be found at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/49123/696684/post.ashx#696684
It is also available in ms-word format. I can send it to you if you like.
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Analysis
Hamas you asked; "Can you please expand on some of the things that you wrote? Why is all that important?"
The reason I would ask those questions is that it helped me to determine the proper perspective of the Bible itself.
Was man created 6000 years ago and placed in a Garden of Eden where all of creation lived in harmony? Then did a Global Flood wipe out mankind and all of the animals except those in the Ark? Thereby causing the Polar Ice Caps.
Scientist from Woods Hole and other locations have done a great deal of research on the age of the Ice Caps. In addition to Radio Carbon dating, they can now date certain events via the layers of Ice. DNA Scientist have also used changes to date DNA to determine how long man has been on the earth.
I came to realize that man has been around for a great deal longer then the 6000 plus years of the Bible. I also found that a few Scientist have proved that a major flood did occur in the Middle East about 7,600 years ago and could be the event that the Bible’s Global Flood was based. But, it was not global in nature!
This caused me to realize that the Bible maybe based on History, but it is not a History Book. After carefully reading the Bible after this realization, I came to see that it was not even written by contemporary authors. And much of the prophetic portions of the Bible most likely were written or edited after the fact.
That is not to say I do not put any value in the Bible.
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rocketman
There are some good approaches listed here thus far. I think hooberus made some good points if one wants to approach the basicaly fundamentalist jw view toward creation and the flood.
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No Apologies
Bitter,
Ask him why Jehovah gave him nipples!! Can any creationist give me a reason why men have them???????
Seriously, the flood is a basic belief of JWs that is very easy to debunk. Especially some of their earlier teachings regarding it that they have cautiously and slowly backed away from, hoping no one would notice. For example: it never rained before the Flood, all the animals were vegetarian before the Flood, a rainbow had never been seen before the Flood. Go to alt.talk.origins. It has tons of logical information on the Flood.
Then have him research 607. I set out to prove to myself that 607 B.C.E. was the correct date for the destruction of Jerusalem. Guess what I found out????
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bittersweet
LOL...guess what Analysis?! My husband works in Woods Hole! He is surrounded by scientists every day. He has a BS in marine biology, and he works as head of periodicals at MBL ( Marine Biological Laboratory ). The kind of stuff you're talking about doesn't phase him. He believes in God creating everything, so I'm better off with a tactic that proves the religion is run by men, not by God. Thanks for all your info though!
Thanks to everyone.A lot of what you've given me will surely help.
Has anybody read any good books that I should get and leave hanging around the house? Has anyone read "Crisis of Conscience", and if it is good, were might I find a copy? Any sugggestions would be helpful. Thanks again guys. You're all great!!
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Analysis
Bittersweet that is funny.
I have a question, did he have his BS in marine biology before he became a Witness?
Or did he get a higher education against the direction of the FDS?
If it is the later then somewhere deep inside he does not really believe that they speak for God. So there is hope.
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BluesBrother
I have just read Runningman's excellent essay on the subject of logic, as applied to JWs , i think there is plenty of mileage there in debunking the arguments and forms of argumentation used by the WTS
The religion seems logical if you only listen to their arguments,set out in their way. ( I can recall my mother telling me that it just made sense). However, it is important to mentally step aside , really open ones mind and not be afraid to think the unthinkable.
Consider. Is it really logical to believe that:
God will slaughter 90% of the worlds population , simply because they do not react to the WBTS. ? (Dubs will often deny that this is their teaching , and some articles have left open the question of judgement - but an honest answer would be that this is exactly what they believe and a reading of,say, the new "Worship Only True God Book"will make it abundantly clear )
A spirit directed org. would misquote its source material ? - Plenty of examples on the net
Or be an NGO in support of the United Nations Org?
etc , etc .
Perhaps real logic may prevail. Your husband sounds like a man you can at least talk reasonably to, good luck.
I have read Crisis of Conscience. It is excellent. It is very detailed and is of particular benefit to someone who knows the workings of the Society and see where Ray Franz is coming from. The trouble is that a dub in good standing would think it to be a serious wrongdoing to read a book by a man who was disfellowshipped . mind you, we still refer to the "Aid" book , and Ray Franz headed the team that wrote that too!
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garybuss
Hi Bittersweet, Just have him read my article *The Truth As I Seen It* and comment on the logic it reveals.
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JamesThomas
The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that "you must love Jehovah your God, with your whole heart, mind and soul."
If you don't -- He will kill you.
Is this logical and reasonable? Is it even humanly possible to truly and honestly love and honor someone who will kill you if you don't???
Does killing and threatening to kill -- for not loving -- go with, or against the true-nature of love?
These statements and questions, this line of reasoning is kind of becoming my mantra here, and people may wonder if I know anything else. But, this seems to go to the heart of the matter. To the root of the insanity of being a Witness (many other beliefs systems are not excluded).
JamesT