How many TRUE BELIEVERS do you think are left in the Organization?

by pistolpete 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Vidiot

  IMO, the number of "True Believers" is academic, since - as has been demonstrated here - its definition is so fluid.

  "Loyalists" might be a better focus.

  And this should be a little easier, simply because all you have to do is make a guess based on your own congregation (assuming you're still in one).

  If you know approximately how many people are in your Hall, and you have a pretty good idea how many full-on loyalists are in your Hall, it's pretty basic math.

  Then, simply view a JW congregation as the Org in microcosm.
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  Phizzy

  Good way of looking at things Vidiot, because it is the ones who are loyal to the Org regardless of almost anything that they learn about the org, and regardless of the doctrinal changes, it is these ones who will stick, and keep it going.

  The 100% believer, or even high percentage believer, can be shown that their beliefs are rubbish, if they open their closed minds, and they will leave, if it was only that they thought it was "the truth" that keeps them in. The loyal follower, as with any Cult, will stay until the end.

  It was that way in my case, a lover of truth all my life, but never a little grey "Society" man, I could no longer stay once the House of Cards that is the Org's beliefs and teachings, fell down,
• 

  pistolpete

  "Loyalists" might be a better focus.

  he 100% believer, or even high percentage believer, can be shown that their beliefs are rubbish, if they open their closed minds, and they will leave, if it was only that they thought it was "the truth" that keeps them in. The loyal follower, as with any Cult, will stay until the end.

  That's an interesting perspective I never thought of.

  So with that in mind we have three groups associated with the organization

  Loyalists

  Believers

  And PIMOs

  Leaving out children under 18 who have no choice but to stay in until they are old enough to leave.

  PIMOs who are adults and know it's not the truth but still attend for whatever reason---Would they be consider Loyalists?? Since they still attend and support to a small extent? Does not matter how small or minimal the support is, -------it's still support for the WT organization.
  
• 

  Diogenesister

  P. PETE I think your assessment is pretty much right on the money.

  In 20 years Jehovah’s Witnesses will be pretty much a cultural/social club.

  The main issues they will have to drop is shunning and the blood issue. Without shunning there is nothing to use against a witness essentially believing/doing whatever they wish. Including blood transplants. Their attitude to child abuse will change due to social pressures. For example today I commented that a woman in a film “looked like a tank” and my kids scolded “oh body shaming! It’s 2021 mum!!”🙄

  DOC They have no idea WTF this "overlapping" BS is about. All they know is JW dot ORG and that they are "SPECIAL" and only they will be saved and everyone else is "lesser" and will be destroyed and they will inherit all the "booty" left behind.

  This too! That feeling of being “special and different” is pretty addictive, as is the concept of the paradise (unless you think it through a bit, that is).

  Remember, too, there is no pressure to carry out charitable acts, either financial or in the Christian sense of serving ones community. It’s an utterly self centred religion with very little giving.

  The superficiality of the faith, the social club and Watchtowers bank balance will keep the org afloat for a while yet.
• 

  Diogenesister

  Pete/Vidiot you’ve also made an interesting distinction between “loyalists” and “believers”.

  Believers minds can potentially be changed. Loyalists, less so.

  Theres an element of pride in being a loyalist. They identify so strongly with Watchtower; condemning it injures the loyalists pride and damages their self worth.
• 

  Diogenesister

  MMM Have you noticed that the really committed religious men often wear that solitary pinky ring? It’s like a yell for “creepy-believer-that-doesn’t-really-believe”. It’s not just JWs. It seems to be in all religions. Some church leader gets older and then all of a sudden, out comes a pinky ring.

  LOL 🤣 but it’s also because as you get older you put on weight, so your signet rings don’t fit your ring fingers anymore and you have to wear them on your pinky😄
• 

  asp59

  Depends were in time the question is asked. If this was the 70s and there would be as many half empty KHs, divorces and people just getting baptized cause family told you to. I guess probably 90 procent of JWs or more would be considered not strong in the faith.
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  joe134cd

  It’s a hard question. I would say the number of people who have accepted TTATT, to the point that they investigate on the internet,would be under 5%. As I look back on when I was PIMO, there were a couple of people who I now wonder knew that the jw religion wasn’t all that it appeared. They are still trudging along for whatever reason.
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  Vidiot

  Taking my thoughts to the next iteration, I think we can guesstimate just how many people would stay devoted to the Org right to the end.

  Given all the available anecdotal evidence and our own personal observations, I’d say that only about 10-15% of active members are true Loyalists.

  And what’s more, on some level the leadership knows this and wants to prune the R&F down to just these.
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  Disillusioned JW

  I wish there was a way to find out who are the JWs with doubts and who are the disfellowshiped JWs (ones considering reinstatement), so that we could contact them and share with them what we have learned.