Moral responsibility. (page 15)

Sea Breeze

Objective morality: Rules and expectations that would be the same for you and me, even though we may have different opinions, positions in life, influence etc.

cofty

What is the difference between subjective - objective and absolute morality?

You seem reluctant to engage. I answered your question. Now answer mine. Do you have anything other than what you have already presented as a possible atheist-friendly explanation regarding the origin of atheist objective morality?

cofty

Subjective morality is probably synonymous with personal preference. You have already indicated that this is what you confuse with morality without god. You are wrong in this conclusion. It is a common canard of christians to present a false dichotomy between morality based on god or everybody choosing whether or not to eat babies.

Objective morality is the task of making moral judgements on the basis of a standard we can agree on with others. I have summarised this foundation as the 'flourishing of conscious creatures'. We know the basic needs of other humans since we all share the same physiology. It is always harmful to another person to kidnap and rape them. On this basis we can say that it is OBJECTIVELY wrong to do these things. It does not matter if somebody else does not share this view. They are wrong, objectively wrong.

John Rawls suggests a 'veil of ignorance' as a useful thought experiment in thinking about morality. Imagine yourself in an original position behind a veil of ignorance. Behind this veil, you know nothing of yourself and your natural abilities, or your position in society. You know nothing of your sex, race, nationality, or individual tastes. Behind such a veil of ignorance all individuals are simply specified as rational, free, and morally equal beings. From this position we can begin to think objectively about right and wrong. It is a more sophisticated version of 'do unto others' which predates Jesus of Nazareth by many centuries.

Absolute morality is a term favoured by theists and constantly confused with objective morality. It is synonymous with morality with divine fiat. Those things are good which god says are good and vice-versa.

But how do we know what god says? We have an ancient book but it prescribes moral standards of Iron Age goat herders. Sometimes it advocates love and at other times it positively approves of slavery, kidnap, rape and infanticide. It recommends behaviour that we all find repulsive. Should we follow our conscience or the revealed word of god?

God is a hindrance to objective morality.

cofty

Please consider that post with the same effort it took to write it.

Sea Breeze

Objective morality is the task of making moral judgements on the basis of a standard we can agree on with others.

@ Cofty

I have already commented on the presupposition of convention in responding to TonusOh. One country says driving on the right side of the road is correct. Another country does just the opposite and states it is correct. So, convention cannot expalin objective atheist morality if it is just agreed upon rules.

We know the basic needs of other humans since we all share the same physiology.

But we don't all share the same physiology, so it is impossible for you to know anything based upon that explanation. My brain chemistry is different than your brain chemistry. Furthermore, in your world view why would I care about the basic human needs of others if we are simply chemical reactions?

Would you try to save the baking soda if you saw that it was periously close to coming into contact with vinegar? Would you feel bad and have regret if you did not? Of course not, I'm sure you would agree that is absurd.

Any other possible explanations for atheist objective morality?

cofty

It's becoming akin to playing chess with a pigeon. Your reply is an embarrassment.

Sea Breeze

I think that means you are all out of explanations Cofty, at least for now. If you can think of anything else that can account for objective atheist morality, other than :

* conventions

* descriptions

* physiology

Please let me know.

All worldviews other than the Christian worldview are ultimately irrational, inconsistent & arbitrary.
- Sea Breeze

cofty

You are the very stereotype of an ideologue who is incapable or unwilling to engage honestly with anybody who doesn't share your worldview.

You have taken everything I and nicolaou have said and presented it as the exact opposite of what we actually said.

Sea Breeze

@Cofty

I am definitely comparing a Christian worldview with an Atheist worldview.... as we should with all worldviews. We should take the time to see if they are at least consistent. We all owe this to ourselves after suffering the abuse of the WT.

You have taken everything I and nicolaou have said and presented it as the exact opposite of what we actually said.

Can you give me an example?

Moral responsibility.

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