do you believe in karma? (page 4)

Sentinel

Yes, I do. However, for those of you who are disappointed that things do not work themselves out in this lifetime, take heart. In Karma, it is the soul that moves from one existence to another, and in that unlimited existence, what goes around does indeed, come around.

Sirona

Hi

I believe that if someone projects negativity, then negativity will come to them. For instance, someone who is miserable attracts other miserable people....birds of a feather flock together. This has been seen to be fact from a psychological standpoint. Happy people are often surrounded by quite a few happy balanced individuals.

If our thoughts centre around harming others or generally being destructive, then this directly affects our reality for the most mundane reasons. On the simplest level, someone who walks around being destructive or harmful is similarly NOT thinking of others or helping them....then this person wonders why he / she has no "luck" and no nice friends.

Spiritually speaking, I do believe that everything is connected on an energy level and that our energy can repel or attract other types of energy. This, to me, is Karma. We need loving energy to receive love properly.

I also believe in reincarnation and that Karma is not meted out according to our previous life, rather, we choose a life based on our previous mistakes to help us learn a new path. Therefore, if we have killed someone in a previous life, we may choose to suffer a life of pain to help us learn lessons of self control and love for others above ourselves....that is an awful oversimplification, I suppose. I do believe that our purpose / path is clearer when in spirit rather than incarnate and we have a predefined purpose for being here.

I believe that I chose to get cancer in my 26th year and that my mother chose to have a child who would get cancer in her 26th year.....and we've both learned valuable lessons from it. Controversial, I know.

Sirona

Oroborus21

Was Boy George singing "Karma Chameleon" or was it another word like "Come a, Come a.."?

anyway, I don't believe in Karma as defined officially or as a part of Hinduism/Buddism where it is an energy that emanates from our actions and which can either help or hinder a person's transmigration, etc.

A belief in REAL Karma REQUIRES a belief in a SOUL that continues into another form of existence.

There are certain truths from the Golden Rule to "everything that goes around comes around" to "The Wheel of Fortune" to the Greek Nemesis, to the Laws of Thermodynamics and Newton's "for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction" etc. which all seem to share the same kernel of an idea.

I think that as humans we have a god given sense of justice that is innate. Therefore whenever we perceive an injustice, this sense combined with our own hope for a better state and any social conditioning that we may have, will very often tend to create a strong desire that the unjust act has some consequence--preferably one that is "corrective" of the injustice.

If it is our power to do something about it ourselves then we USUALLY do not justify our correction of the injustice in karmic terms. (Unless we TRULY do not feel justified by objectively material criteria--which is why when Mr. Bush says that the war on Iraq is "divinely backed" it leads me to think that he doesn't have the real evidence.) However, if it is not in our power to do anything about it and we perceive that no other visible authority is able to do something about the injustice, then very often we, because of the above, resort to a "karmic solution." This helps to set our sense of injustice somewhat at ease and disperses some of the negative feelings and feelings of powerlessness and thus allows us to continue to function. We can see that in a system or world where we are powerless over so many things, that a mechanism such as this would be very useful and so that is why in one form or another such a solution is reflected across diverse human cultures and populations and why the whole idea is very appealing on a personal nature.

Interestingly enough then those that we could say have much power/authority rarely appeal to a "karmic solution" since having great power they are able to resolve any unjust situations and conversely those in society who have very little power/authority are highly likely to embrace a "karmic solution" to the problem.

--Eduardo

Mecurious?

Those that you described as unkind, devious and vengeful are usually the ones that get most out of life. In my book, good guys often finish last.

Very good point. I don't believe in karma at all. I'm very skeptical of things like this. I think its just mysticism. I do believe that people judge us by who we associate with and even if we are nothing like the people that we hang around, people will somehow associate their actions to us. Personally I know of two musicians that hang around each other. Their both rotten to the core and have been that way for years. For example, they would often not show up at paid gigs and when they did show up they were late, and would criticize the venues that we had to play at. Now one of them can’t get gigs. Other musicians refuse to work with him. He is unemployed and he sits around complaining when it’s his all his fault. However the other one still gets gigs and people still hire him but he's just as rotten, where is the karma in that? Is karma selective?

Brian'

gitasatsangha

Many variations on the same idea. Some thoughts:

Karma means "Action" in sanskrit (or as close as it is translatable). In the Buddhist Pali cannon it's called Kama. In Hinduism (and lately the rest of the world) it is Karma. So actually Karma means "to do". You are always generating action, even when you sleep (or, like that great song by Rush, "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice." The idea of "Bad Karma" is a bit of a neologism. Everything affects you in some method or another, but not just you, but rather everything around you, because of the interconnectedness of living. There is no room for softening the blow, but the affects might be felt in the next life, unknown to the person who is experiencing it, because of the necessary ignorance we have of our past lives. People get what they deserve. Inscruitable, maybe.

Of course this is where the smirking Cartesean-type will try to disprove the rebirth concept by saying. "I think, therefore I AM. I forgot, therefore I'm NOT." Maybe. Can't prove it. Still the concept works on the most athiestic inimaginative plane imaginable, because karma is not religious at all. Not even remotely spiritual. Well? Maybe. For example:

The Vedantic ideal of the soul is that it is ultimately untarnishable. Only there is the illusion of reaping what you sow. Yes, you might take more rebirths over some action rather then get realization earlier, but in the end this was the path you had to take. An example might be the fable of the criminal crucified next to Jesus. He would not have been able to get blessed by the Christ unless he first commited the crime. So was it bad karma to do whatever he did to get nailed up to the cross? Was it bad Karma for the Roman's to nail him up? Was it good? For that matter, should those Christians who believe in literal ransom sacrifice say a prayer of thanks to the soldiers who also crucified Jesus? He couldn't exactly kill himself, could he? In the end good and bad are just more illusory stuff in the Maya, and have nothing to do with karma.

Yes I would say there is Action (Karma), but I also believe in Grace. Grace being the sum of love which can transcend the weight of the results of one's actions. Grace is a leap of faith, Karma is a face of life. Not much fun to have the latter without the former, maybe.

-Gita

Francois

Brian, you say that karma is just mysticism. Well. That certainly begs the question what is mysticism? And especially what is "just mysticism"? You seem to sweep away thousands of years experience of people evolving such that they can touch the indwelling "Light" that is part and parcel of their heart/mind system, and which is a phenomena directly involving the existential God. That's sort of cavalier, don't you think?

There's no "just" about mysticism. It is a task-master, although not a terrible one, and one must be an adept to realize its worth. To become a mystic requires the most delicate and careful walking along the razor's edge with no leaning one way or another, no slips, no falls until one reaches that estate when the razor's edge becomes the universe: vast and profound, and one can then traverse it with ease and confidence. Arriving at that estate is no small feat my friend, and it certainly does not deserve your characterization as "just" mysticism. I feel strongly that you have allowed yourself to continue talking long after your grasp of the subject has run out!

francois

gitasatsangha

I think sometimes persons who want to be seen as "rational" try to sweep mysticism away, not realizing that some of the greatest known rational minds. (Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon etc) were well known mystics, and that some of our more demanding sciences, (such as Clinical Psychology, Cosmology, Particle Physics) are at near mystic levels, themselves, at times.

Francois

"Near Mystical at times?" If I were a betting man, I would bet all I've got on quantuum physics being all mysticism all the time. Any science that says that table only has a "tendency" to exist and then goes about proving it has got my FULL attention.

francois

gitasatsangha

"Near Mystical" as in "A Little Pregnant"

-Gita

Mecurious?

I feel strongly that you have allowed yourself to continue talking long after your grasp of the subject has run out!

Oh. I apologize most enlightened one, please instruct me. I know that you have all the answers in life. I spoke too soon and without understanding. Please, please have mercy on "us" lesser beings.

mysticism:

1: a religion based on mystical communion with an ultimate reality

2: obscure or irrational thought.

Brian

do you believe in karma?

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