Annual Report

by St George of England 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • dropoffyourkeylee
    dropoffyourkeylee

    The number of people self-identifying as JWs, which is what is reflected in census data, exceeds the number of people who are click-the-box publishers. There are loads of people out there who come only to the Memorial, but are former publishers/ family no longer actively associating who probably consider themselves JWs and self-identify as such.

    I think an argument can be made that the life cycle of the JW religion in a given country goes through a demonstrable process occurring over several generations.

    1) First generation of believers commit to the lifestyle and are relatively successful in raising their children in the same faith. (high growth rates, 1950's through '80s in the US) (I realize the religion had a long history before the 1950s, but it went through a re-invention post-Rutherford, in my opinion)

    2) Second generation commit at first,but by the time they are in early middle age and having to raise their own children, stay in nominally but realize they are screwed and are glad to see their kids decide on their own to leave.(still showing growth, 90's through 2010's)

    3) Third generation is just hanging around and are non-committal, though they still may self-identify and show up to memorial to appease grandparents and parents. (2010's until present, stagnation)

    The US is in stage 3. Some of the African nations like Congo and Nigeria are still in stage 1, hence the vibrant growth. Japan is entering stage 3, Mexico is in stage 2 heading into 3.

    Where stage 4 will lead us in coming years I don't know.

  • HereIam60
    HereIam60

    I don't know about worldwide, but in the US, I think there are a considerable number of people who, when asked, identify their religiion as Jehovah's Witnesses, without ever having been closely associated with a congregation.. This includes people who used to read the Watchtower printed publications when those were widespread, liked what they read, and accepted it as their "faith" Also those who had a home bible study for a time but never began attending meetings, and after discontinuing the study still "held on to" basic doctrines they learned,

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    Stage 3.

    Im guessing for North American countries.

    And more educated countries with access to the internet,, books and videos.

    Information is readily available.

    Im betting the vast majority of JWs family,, relatives attend to appease family or whatever.

    And to put their minds at ease.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    Everything is about pleasing people..

    Its not about your benefit,,, it benefits THEM.

    Meetings,,, conventions ,, assemblies. Its for their benefit,,,not you.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    I think it makes sense given the world at the moment, wars in the middle east and the Ukraine etc

    Yes, no doubt. It certainly makes me more inclined to go to the KH and to church. I suspect things in the world can get a whole lot worse too, with wars, AI, future pandemics. You name it. I think we’re in for a rough ride, and people need community in times like that.

    It is true that some have incorrectly said the denomination is in actual decline. But what you seem to be misrepresenting, here and on other occasions, is that others including myself have correctly stated that their growth rate has declined.

    Of course the rate of increase has declined. This is clear and I’ve never said otherwise. By contrast most other churches are trying to cope with severe declines and ultimately closure in the case of some denominations. Declining growth rates is an attractive “problem” for JWs to deal with compared with the severe declines other churches are facing.

    And this remains the case in real terms despite their twiddling of the metrics.

    Other churches do this too. For example some churches that required a financial contribution for membership have dropped that, and many churches now include online viewers in their attendance figures. That’s why I like the number of congregations metric more than others because it often (not always - no measure is perfect) gives a clearer picture of real long term trends across different groups.

    Additionally, we all know that direct comparisons with other churches are invalid where there is no (or trivial) social impediment to leaving the church. This includes denominations that nominally ‘excommunicate’/‘disfellowship’ supposedly errant members but use the terms in a manner that does not actually involve shunning but just excludes them from attending religious services.

    It sounds like you’re saying that because there is a reason for JW growth therefore the growth doesn’t count. But of course there is a reason, everything has a reason. More specifically, perhaps you’re saying that JW growth is morally tarnished because it’s accomplished by a practice you don’t approve. That’s fine as an ethical position if you want to take it. It’s not really what I’m talking about when I observe that JWs are continuing to grow while most other churches are declining. This is simply an empirical observation without saying it’s right or wrong, good or bad.

    Having said that, it’s true that DFing is probably one reason for continued JW growth in among other factors, and for a complex set of reasons. In the 1990s sociologist Rodney Stark wrote a series of articles on JWs, Mormons, and growth patterns, in which he outlined a theory to explain why certain groups grow. Strictness and exclusion are factors and he identified a number of others as well. It’s not all down to one thing.

    Another slightly ironic angle on the statement “JWs only grow because they disfellowship”, is that as they begin to downgrade shunning we will inevitably hear the converse claim too: “JWs are only growing because they dropped shunning”. We’ve already seen it debuted on the forum a few times and will no doubt amplify if they continue to grow, while they reduce shunning, and while other churches continue to decline.

    It’s more complex than that. POMIs (etc) could be offset by families with multiple children who are counted as JWs in the census. This could also include spouses and adult children in the household who are counted as JWs by the ‘head of the house’ completing the census form.

    However you explain away the high numbers of JWs in census returns, you should also explain why the same factors don’t affect Mormons or other groups. The simplest explanation is that JWs offer a modest count of their membership compared with other churches that often overstate their membership. But there is a lot of clutching at straws to try to avoid that obvious conclusion by any means possible.

  • Hellothere
    Hellothere
    Last year increase was around + 1. This year around + 2. Yeah changes in how they count things gave them 1 procent increase. Shows leaders are not confident on orgs future if they have to play with numbers to boost results. Think current GB gonna continue putting lipstick on the pig. Sooner or later subject about the amount of jws not visiting halls or going d2d gonna be to big to avoid. Plus all halls being sold and no accountability for what's happening with all the money they getting. But then the old GB members gonna be gone. It's gonna be younger GB members problems. Plus all child abuse cases lining up.
  • joe134cd
    joe134cd

    However you explain away the high numbers of JWs in census returns, you should also explain why the same factors don’t affect Mormons or other groups.

    I like that reply slim. This particular subject fascinates me.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    HEREIAM60:

    I know just what you mean about people who identify themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses who have no current connection to a congregation.

    I know several people who fall into this category. They are children of deceased JWs and are now my age category or a few years younger.. When I was ‘in’ in the early years of being a JW, these people weren’t really active. They attended once in a while to please their parent. They did their own thing, had careers and maybe got married. But, they had absolutely no idea what somebody like me went through being ‘active’ in the religion and being criticized over a full time job.. They were absent and did not experience any of this.

    How ironic that I am out many years ‘Faded’ and retired.. Meanwhile, these people (who were never really active in the religion in the first place) identify themselves as JWs even though they have no idea what the religion is really all about then or now! 🤷🏻‍♀️

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    I like that reply slim. This particular subject fascinates me.

    Joe, another interesting thing is that, as low as the Mormon numbers are in census results, the difference between Mormons and JWs might be even greater than even the census results indicate. Because various former Mormon missionaries have described how the Mormon church has run specific campaigns in various countries to encourage inactive Mormons to identify themselves as Mormons in the census. So it’s despite even those extra efforts that Mormons still come out so much fewer in number in the census compared with their official membership. Chile is one of the most blatant examples where they claimed 500,000 members yet, despite all their efforts to get people to identify as Mormon, only 100,000 did so in the census. This is in contrast with JWs who make no such effort yet many more identity as JWs than the official number.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    It sounds like you’re saying that because there is a reason for JW growth therefore the growth doesn’t count.

    🤦‍♂️ Sure, whatever gets you through the night. 🙄 That paragraph was fairly obviously about retention rather than growth, but you can spin it however you like.

    JWs do also have a very high churn rate compared to other denominations, with a non-trivial proportion of short-term members briefly affiliated and leaving but this is a separate category of members to those impacted by the previously mentioned retention issues.

    More specifically, perhaps you’re saying that JW growth is morally tarnished because it’s accomplished by a practice you don’t approve.

    Oh goody, a straw man. Who cares about what people actually say if you can just make up their opinion for them. 🤷‍♂️

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