Can we think of anyone who does this today?
Ooh, that’s a hard question,
Let me see, could it be………?
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Is the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses REALLY the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matt. 24:45-47?
by Roger Kirkpatrick 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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ozziepost
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Disillusioned JW
Om page 3 of this topic thread Vanderhoven7 listed examples which he says draw a contrast between Jesus and the JW governing body, but a number of those same examples can be shown to indicate that Paul disagreed with Jesus (at least with Jesus as described in the Bible). See 1 Corinthians 5:9-11. Therefore the following questions are very relevant to his post. Does the NT contradicts itself? Was Paul a false apostle of Christ? Were some of the narratives about Christ false and/or was Christ wrong in some of his actions and/or teachings?
Notice that in 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 (ASV) Paul tells Christians to "have no company with fornicators" in regards to any man who is "named a brother", likewise in regards to those named a brother who is "an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner". Regarding all of them Paul (at verse 11 [ASV]) says "I write unto you not to keep company ... with such a one no, not to eat."
In 2 Corinthians chapter 11 Paul warns against listening to those Christians who preach a different gospel than his. Likewise the JW/WT's governing body warns JWs against listening to those who preach a different gospel than that of the WT. In verses 13-15 Paul warns against listening to men whom Paul says "are false apostles, deceitful workers". In that category Paul is including those whom Paul says are ministers of Satan who "fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness"; and Paul says "even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light". The JW/WT governing body warns JWs from listening to those whom the governing body calls apostates, even saying that such ones are deceptive liars. The JW governing body is thus acting like Paul, when the governing body says not to listen those Christians who contradict what the the governing body claims is doctrinal truth.
What about Charles Russell and the WT's governing body? Russell publicly debated some of those that were "claiming to be Jehovah’s representatives" and Russell "criticized their interpretation of scripture". The WT/JW and its governing body in there literature (and in their video broadcasts) criticizes many interpretations of scripture held held by numerous theologians (and other teachers) of Christianity. If the WT/JW and its governing body are wrong in those teachings and actions, then what about Paul? Was he also wrong in some of his teachings and actions?
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Disillusioned JW
Did Paul falsely claim to be an apostle of Jesus Christ?
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enoughisenough
DisillusionedJW I thought of those scriptures you mentioned...the text the use to shun those who disassociate often doesn't apply. Many haven't been immoral in any way, and many uphold the teachings of Jesus Christ. They just recognise the lies the WT published and spoke out.
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Disillusioned JW
Hi enoughisenough. I agree entirely with your post in which you said "the text the use to shun those who disassociate".
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Rattigan350
Why does anyone think that it even matters?
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Witness 007
Rutherford bought a mansion for Moses and David since 1925 would be judgement day and after coming back from the dead they would need a pool and Martini. He also made a book called "children" in 1942 telling Witnesses not to have any since the fascist catholic church was about to start Armageddon. "DISCREET FAITHFUL!!
Bunch of arrogant idiot slave class.
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JW GoneBad
Matthew 24:45 is a statement Jesus made in the form of a rhetorical question...he didn't intend to get a reply from his audience. There are many instances in the Bible where Jesus would put a question out to his listeners and his listeners would quickly reply with an answer...Mat 24:45 is different. Jesus was merely creating a dramatic effect or making a point rather than wanting/expecting an answer from someone. Who but a knucklehead in an audience would attempt to reply to a rhetorical question!
The rhetorical question:
"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?"
Whose the knucklehead who raises his hand to answer that rhetorical question?
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society/Governing Body Of Jehovah's Witnessses.
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enoughisenough
Whose the knucklehead who raises his hand to answer that rhetorih's Witnesssescal question?
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society/Governing Body Of Jehovah's Witnesseshad to laugh!!
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Chezdale
Roger K
You said in the first Post -
Watch Tower teaches that Jesus was foretelling a time when he would appoint a faithful and discreet slave class over his followers on earth. However, nowhere did Jesus identify himself as the master.
There are two features which must be fulfilled for one to fit Jesus’ model of a faithful and discreet slave, and both features were fulfilled by Jesus before he ascended to heaven. First, the slave must give the master’s domestics their food at the proper time. Do you remember when Jesus told his disciples, as recorded at John 16:12, “I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present.” Clearly, Jesus was giving his disciples spiritual food at the proper time for them. Still, when Jesus spoke those words he had not yet proven his loyalty to the Father unto death.
Second, after having been inspected and found to have fulfilled the first feature, that slave would be appointed over all the master’s belongings. Jesus also fulfilled this feature. After having proved his loyalty to the Father unto death and shortly following his resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and as recorded at Matthew 28:18, “Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.”
Since Jesus never identified himself as the master in his illustration, and since both features of a faithful and discreet slave find their fulfillment in Jesus, could it be that Jesus was pointing to himself as an example of a faithful and discreet slave? 1Peter 2:21 says, “In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving you a model for you to follow his steps closely.”
That is an interesting way of approaching it and does make sense. I am still pondering that viewpoint.
It is very telling, also to note that Luke 12:41-48 is not used very much by WT when referencing the faithful and discreet slave illustration.
Yes, 1Peter 2:21 Jesus gave an example of how to be and how to interact with others.
WT stated in a 1990 Mar 15 WT Study Article: Cooperating with the Governing Body
We can easily understand that the increased load of responsibility devolving upon the Master’s slave, steward, or house manager involved intense writing and editorial activities. Spiritual food supplies had to be published regularly at the proper time in The Watchtower. In 1919 The Golden Age (a companion magazine later to become Consolation, and then Awake!) began to be published to arouse public interest, in addition to building up the “domestics.” Floods of books, booklets, and tracts have also been produced over the years.
I wonder about the food in the illustration. Could it mean something else other than “floods of books, booklets, and tracts ..”? Jesus life and his service was more than that.
Other scriptures indicate a broader description.
For example:
In the parable of the sheep and goats, there's a few elements – Brothers, Sheep, Goats and interaction. Jesus gives the criteria on how they are sorted out as either a Sheep or a Goat. Is it dispensing “spiritual Food”? No.
… I was hungry, you gave me food. Was thirsty – something to drink.
I was a stranger – you took me in. Naked I got clothes.. I was sick – you visited me. I was in prison, you came and saw me!
(WT very rarely comments on these specific details)
These are all just human actions. If an individual sees a need and has the ability to fulfil that need that is surely brotherly love. People do that every day. Show and give ordinary kindness and human compassion!
WTs “explanation” is this in a nutshell:
A person is a sheep based on the “support” they give to the "anointed" ones, the governing body.
2015 Mar 15 page 26 par 7 study WT COOPERATING WITH THE GOVERNING BODY TODAY “explains”
Today, we understand the parable of the sheep and the goats clearly. We know that “the Son of man,” or “the King,” is Jesus. The King’s “brothers” are those who are anointed with holy spirit and who will rule in heaven with Jesus. “The sheep” and “the goats” are people from all nations. They will be judged toward the end of the great tribulation that will soon begin. And we know that Jesus will judge people according to how they have treated the anointed ones who are still on earth. We are so grateful that Jehovah has helped us over the years to understand this parable and the other parables in Mathew chaters 24 -25
However, Jesus answered a question and pointed to those following him around and non were anointed.
But Jesus replied, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?” Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” Matt 12:49,50
(also Mark 3:32 -35)
Of course the standard comment from a JW will be along the lines of " ... of course it is only us who are doing the will of Jesus father today! (and by implication saying that is the preaching work).
However, Jesus is the judge. The action - or non action - toward a fellow human in a time of need (if we have the power to act) is surely the basis of Christs decision.
I used to think that to be approved by God, or Christ, or to get salvation, - was ALL dependent on giving time and energy to a group of men.