This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe
by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
I read the link.
It is dreadful.
1 - It tries to excuse natural evil by appealing to free-will.
2 - It claims that an omnipotent god is bound by natural laws.
You don't need me to tell you why that doesn't work.
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slimboyfat
Do materialists really believe in "natural evil", or what do you mean by it? If there is no God or purpose behind things, isn't it a case of "natural indifference" rather than evil? If there is no God, what is the use of a concept such as "natural evil"?
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John_Mann
He's bound by His nature. From His nature comes natural or necessary truths. God cannot lie for instance.
The link makes a distinction between a world ruled by natural laws or a world ruled by miracle.
Possibly natural evil must be necessary and unavoidable to the existence of free-will. But the ultimate goal is a greater good.
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cofty
SBF - Why do you struggle so much with the concept of a conditional argument?
IF the god of christian theism exists - THEN he would be responsible for the destruction caused by a tsunami. These types of suffering could be referred to as "natural evil" to distinguish them from bad stuff that people do others. If you don't like the term don't use it. No problem. I know semantics is your hobby. The challenge to theism remains.
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cofty
Possibly natural evil must be necessary and unavoidable to the existence of free-will. - JM
But it isn't.
We can have all the good stuff about an active planet without earthquakes and tsunamis. That would be trivially easy for god. Free will is not involved in any way.
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slimboyfat
God can't lie but he can "send out delusions". 2 Thes 2:11
In the case of lying, God probably uses the Nixon defence: it isn't lying when God does it.
Or maybe God is constrained by certain things. Maybe the world he creates is the best possible one. Why not? He's still almighty in relation to us.
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John_Mann
Do materialists really believe in "natural evil", or what do you mean by it? If there is no God or purpose behind things, isn't it a case of "natural indifference" rather than evil? If there is no God, what is the use of a concept such as "natural evil"?
In an atheist perspective why humans perceive evil at all? No other species perceive evil.
There's no evolutionary traces in other species leading to the development of human perception of moral and natural evil.
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cofty
Off topic. Having all your family wiped out in a tsunami is a bad thing whether you believe in god or not.
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John_Mann
Or maybe God is constrained by certain things.
He is. He is only constrained by His nature. That's why the God's nature (Godhead) is a complete mystery.
He can't lie and He can't be evil.