This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe (page 19)

deegee

John_Mann,

"The Bible texts you mentioned can be interpreted by several ways and I can't use my reason to select the best interpretation. I don't need to accept things that are not clear in the Bible."

This is not true. I am sorry, but I have to say that you are being dishonest.

The Bible texts regarding spiritism (not all were included in my comments above) are very clear, unambiguous, unequivocal and explicit regarding the dangers of and penalties for engaging in spiritism.

".....I can't use my reason to select the best interpretation"

BTW, where does your reason come from? Your immaterial soul or your brain?

John_Mann

This is not true. I am sorry, but I have to say that you are being dishonest.
The Bible texts regarding spiritism (not all were included in my comments above) are very clear, unambiguous, unequivocal and explicit regarding the dangers of and penalties for engaging in spiritism.

For instance you interpret these events like being communication with the dead. But there's an interpretation this event is about communication with demons. And a lot more theological interpretations. These particular events say nothing to me.

BTW, where does your reason come from? Your immaterial soul or your brain?

Both if you mean reason as intellect.

But the ability to decide, the will, comes entirely from the soul.

Saethydd

You are talking about scientific falseability about some metaphysical entity.
Well there's a way to test the causation of consciousness.
When we reach the exascale computing we will have, in theory, the same capacity of the brain (this exascale is predicted to be reached between 2025 and 2040).
Combining the exascale computing with the brain simulation in the ongoing Blue Brain Project, we can try to run a virtual brain and see if a consciousness (strong artificial intelligence capable to pass the Turing test) emerges from it.
This would be the ultimate experiment.
I bet a consciousness will not arise. But I'm not sure about the birth of Skynet. Lol

Well, I guess if an AI ever does develop consciousness it would settle the debate, though I'm sure theists would still find a way to argue against it. That is if the AI doesn't wipe us all out.

In the meantime, though, it just doesn't make sense to me to say that the scientific method is unable to explain something which can't even be demonstrated to exist. Maybe the scientific method isn't the problem, maybe the thing in question simply doesn't exist at all, and that is why it can't be studied scientifically.

John_Mann

Well, I guess if an AI ever does develop consciousness it would settle the debate, though I'm sure theists would still find a way to argue against it. That is if the AI doesn't wipe us all out.

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't think of how to argue against Al's consciousness.

This would settle the debate.

But something much stranger would be if this AI says to have a spiritual soul too.

deegee

John_Mann,

"For instance you interpret these events like being communication with the dead. But there's an interpretation this event is about communication with demons."

Your argument was never about the TYPE of discarnate spirit (spirit of the "conscious" dead or a demon) which a spiritist/medium contacts.

Your argument was simply that:

"Spiritism/Spiritualism is BS"

- that is, it is BS regardless of the TYPE of discarnate spirit being contacted be it the spirit of the "conscious" dead or a demon.

In any event, I'm baffled that a devout Catholic like you views contacting demons as BS when the Catholic church is infamously known for its legendary exorcisms.

Just for the record here's one scripture which explicitly warns against communicating with/consulting the dead via a medium:

Deuteronomy 18:9-12:

"When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who CONSULTS THE DEAD. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord."

deegee

John_Mann,

BTW, where does your reason come from? Your immaterial soul or your brain?
"Both if you mean reason as intellect.

What's the point of God creating an immaterial soul that does the same thing as the brain? Why the duplication?

"But the ability to decide, the will, comes entirely from the soul."

How are you able to distinguish what your brain does from what your immaterial soul does?

deegee

Cofty,

Reality and theology don't fit. In lots of little ways theism doesn't pass the common-sense test.

Well has it been said that:

Christianity is true for those who need it to be true.

John_Mann

In any event, I'm baffled that a devout Catholic like you views contacting demons as BS when the Catholic church is infamously known for its legendary exorcisms.

Exorcism is not communication.

What's the point of God creating an immaterial soul that does the same thing as the brain? Why the duplication?

Not necessarily duplication but enhancement. And the process is broken we don't know exactly how it meant to be. Probably it was not meant to be any duplication in the original plan.

How are you able to distinguish what your brain does from what your immaterial soul does?

The first step is to check out the animal behaviour in other species and see differences and similarities.

Non human animals don't have immortal souls.

deegee

John_Mann,

In any event, I'm baffled that a devout Catholic like you views contacting demons as BS when the Catholic church is infamously known for its legendary exorcisms.

Exorcism is not communication.

Apparently I should have provided some more details in my comment in order to make my point.

According to you:

"Spiritism/Spiritualism is BS"

- that is, it is BS regardless of the TYPE of discarnate spirit being contacted be it the spirit of the "conscious" dead OR A DEMON.

Yet the Catholic Church certainly does NOT believe that contacting/communicating with demons is BS since it can lead to demon possession which in turn will require an exorcism.

deegee

John_Mann,

How are you able to distinguish what your brain does from what your immaterial soul does?
"The first step is to check out the animal behaviour in other species and see differences and similarities."

You also stated:

BTW, where does your reason come from? Your immaterial soul or your brain?
"Both if you mean reason as intellect."

Animals do not have the ability to reason, so using your difference in animal behaviour versus human behaviour argument as a basis for determining what your immaterial soul does, why didn't you just attribute the ability to reason solely to your soul? Why include your brain as well?

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

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