Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat 169 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  TonusOH

  It makes sense that they will see some growth when times are generally difficult. Since their sales pitch is based on how things are getting worse --and that this is a sign that the end is near-- such times will lead more people to join, just in case. It may also keep some doubters from leaving, because what if they're right?

  They may continue to see some growth for the next couple of years. The war in Ukraine, the economic and energy problems across the globe, the fears over climate change-- these will keep people in a state of concern or fear, and that makes the message much more comforting than it is when things are going well.
• 

  joe134cd

  I’ve always believed that the church to watch will be the Seventh Day Adventist's. I have had a little bit of involvement with them, since leaving the JWs. They have certainly got the mix right, despite having a very similar doctrine to the JWs. I believe that this religion will surpass its two relatives (LDS/JW), if it hasn’t done so already.
• 

  Jeffro

  slimboyfat:

  (Lots of duplicate posting)
  Jeffro, according to the census numbers, do you think JWs are doing better or worse than other Christian groups?

  Well, that was somewhat tedious. I haven’t argued that JWs haven’t had any growth nor that other denominations haven’t had poor growth. You are pushing your own separate narrative here (and you’ve done so in previous years), though JW growth isn’t what I would call ‘good’ particularly given the significant pressure that exists in the denomination to remain affiliated. In many secular countries, people have been leaving other denominations where there is much less pressure to remain members, which isn’t particularly surprising. But they aren’t running off to become JWs, and most JW growth is coming from inside their own ranks (i. e., having children), though Australia’s population grew 6.4% during this 2.3% ‘increase’ in JW numbers.

  What I have consistently stated, and demonstrated, is that the JW membership as reported by themselves is skewed in favour of growth rate. If other denominations counted some subset within their ranks as the ‘members’ (though JW literature now avoids that term for legal reasons 😂 ) they too would yield higher growth rates.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Just picked this up from Grant Davis

  This is the decrease in the rate of growth since 1995. These figures have been taken from Watchtower’s publications and website.

  

  This is the Ex JW Sub Reddit from 2013. Taken from Reddit.com

  

  If the growth in JWs is declining and the apostate growth increasing all the time, this might answer your question.

  It’s worth bearing in mind that every single JW publisher is recorded in their figures while not every apostate joins Reddit meaning the apostate growth rate is probably considerably larger.
• 

  Jeffro

  slimboyfat:

  Jeffro you are the one who said other churches count attendees as members. This is not the case.

  This is a misrepresentation of what I actually said. I didn’t say that other denominations only or specifically count attendees as members. I indicated that they don’t only count a subset of attendees in the manner that JWs do. I also showed that counting either all adherents or all attendees both give lower growth rates than the way JWs count ‘publishers’.

  You now seem to be arguing that other churches have more adherents than members.

  No, I didn’t say anything like that at all. I did suggest there are people who self-identify as a particular denomination but don’t attend services, but that isn’t in any way a remarkable assertion.
• 

  slimboyfat

  All I have argued in this thread is that JW growth is better than other groups. It’s this point you contradicted me on on page 3

  The JW numbers look “bad” … until you compare them with most other Christian groups which are in severe decline in the west. Compared with other Christian groups the growth of JWs bucks the trend of decline.
  

  To which you replied

  No. Not a valid representation of my position at all. I have explained the reasons previously and you either don’t understand, or you ignore the reasons why JW rates of growth seem higher than for other denominations because it goes against your narrative.

  Now you’re saying something else. Fine. My point is that JWs are growing while most other groups are declining. You’ve given me the opportunity to prove that from census data itself, which demonstrates it even better than I impinged. So it wasn’t entirely unproductive.
• 

  slimboyfat

  Sanchy my argument was that JWs are growing in comparison with other churches that are declining. (Which Jeffro tried to contradict by discrediting Watchtower figures and then selectively quoting census figures.) It was never my argument that there is “no reason” for the fact that JWs are growing while other churches are declining. Their preaching activity is definitely one important reason. Somebody else mentioned disfellowshipping that keeps people in line. That’s definitely a factor too. Wars, economic turmoil and other crises are also factors that affect all religions, and apocalyptic religions are likely to benefit from more than others. That’s likely a significant factor too in countries where that applies.

  My own observation is that most churches have suffered a significant loss in membership and attendance due to the pandemic, the exceptions being Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh-day Adventists who have grown slightly.
• 

  Hellothere

  

  LIFEWAY RESEARCH

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  7 Encouraging Trends of Global Christianity in 2022

  Insights| Discipleship & Evangelism| Faith & Culture | Jan 31, 2022

  Jack Stapleton photo | Unsplash

  By Aaron Earls

  As you serve in your local church, it can be easy to forget the global nature of Christianity. Even connections to missionaries or trips to other countries don’t fully display the magnitude of the modern-day church.

  And if your church has plateaued or is even shrinking, you can be tempted to see the global church in a similar light. But the latest statistics from the Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary can give a better perspective on Christianity in 2022.

  There are seven encouraging trends to note in the 2022 Status of Global Christianity report.

  1. Religious faith is growing faster than the irreligious.

  Particularly in the West, it can seem like secularism is growing and people are leaving the church and the faith. Globally, that is not the case at all.

  While the number of all religious people is growing at a 1.27% rate, the growth rate of nonreligionists is less than half that—0.52%, well below the total population growth percentage. In particular, the number of atheists is almost stagnant, only growing 0.18% per year.

  

  There are fewer atheists around the world today (147 million) than in 1970 (165 million), according to the 2022 Status of Global Christianity report.CLICK TO TWEET

  There are fewer atheists around the world today (147 million) than in 1970 (165 million), and the Gordon-Conwell report expects the number to continue to decline into 2050.

  2. Christianity continues to grow.

  Not only is religion growing overall, but Christianity specifically is growing. With a 1.17% growth rate, almost 2.56 billion people will identify as a Christian by the middle of 2022. By 2050, that number is expected to top 3.33 billion.

  Catholics remain the largest Christian group with almost 1.26 billion adherents, but the two fastest growing Christian groups around the world are evangelicals (1.8% growth rate) and charismatics (1.88%).

  In 1900, less than 1 million people around the world identified as Pentecostal or charismatic Christians. By 2050, that number will top 1 billion, according to the 2022 Status of Global Christianity report.CLICK TO TWEET

  The dramatic global growth for charismatic Christians is particularly noteworthy. In 1900, less than 1 million people around the world identified as Pentecostal or charismatic. By 2050, that number will top 1 billion. JWs are not the Christian group that's growing most.

  https://research.lifeway.com/2022/01/31/7-encouraging-trends-of-global-christianity-in-2022/
• 

  Jeffro

  slimboyfat:

  My point is that JWs are growing while most other groups are declining. You’ve given me the opportunity to prove that from census data itself, which demonstrates it even better than I impinged.

  2.3% ‘growth’ in a period that the population went up 6.4% isn’t even keeping up with population growth. There are clear reasons already stated that people continue to remain JWs whereas others are more free to leave other denominations. Despite that significant pressure their actual ‘growth’ is paltry (and managed largely by popping out babies at a rate that can’t keep up with people leaving). Additionally, much larger denominations generally have a higher proportion of uninvested members whereas smaller denominations tend to mainly comprise a proportionally larger core of hardline members. Your simplistic comparisons with other denominations ignore the reasons behind the differences as well as the actual decline compared to population growth.
• 

  Jeffro

  1.2 million people left Netflix in the first half of 2022 but only 19 people defected from North Korea in the same period. So by slimboyfat reasoning, North Korea must be more popular than Netflix. Or perhaps there are other reasons for the distinction.