Racial Insensitivity

by Coded Logic 127 Replies latest social current

never a jw

Viviane,
Mi vida, this place is so dull without you. We missed you. I am glad you are here again. Welcome back.
truthseekeriam

Black lives matter is in no way saying everyone else's lives don't. It's simply putting a spotlight on the fact that if your black you're more likely to be pulled over and also more likely to be killed at the hands of a police officer. Three times more likely.
never a jw

Black people are 31% more likely to be pulled over than white people,
Assuming that the number is correct, do we take into account other statistics that show that black people are more likely to commit violent crimes? That 31% needs more context to be evaluated correctly.
Reminds me of the airport security comment made in the context of terrorist hijacking airplanes by one of the Home Land Security Secretaries under Bush (I forgot his name). He suggested that old white ladies should be screened at the same rate as young Middle Eastern males. Nice egalitarian thought, but not realistic if we want to use our limited resources in an efficient manner.
Coded Logic
This idea that cops regularly shoot black people is not proven.
- Simon
Really? Let's just look at 2015 shall we? Because, to me, it sure seems like cops are shooting UNARMED black people fairly regularly.
- Artago Damon Howard, an unarmed 36-year-old black man, was shot on Jan. 8, 2015, in a parking lot in Strong, Ark. Howard
- Jeremy Lett an unarmed 28-year-old black man, was shot on Feb. 4, 2015, in a yard in Tallahassee, Fla. A Tallahassee
- Lavall Hall an unarmed 25-year-old black man, was shocked with a stun gun and shot on Feb. 15, 2015, on a street in Miami Gardens, Fla.
- Thomas Allen an unarmed 34-year-old black man, was shot on Feb. 28, 2015, in a vehicle in St Louis, Mo.
- Charly Leundeu Keunang, an unarmed 43-year-old black man, was shocked with a stun gun and shot on March 1, 2015, on a street in Los Angeles, Calif.
- Naeschylus Vinzant, an unarmed 37-year-old black man, was shot on March 6, 2015, on a street in Aurora, Colo.
- Tony Robinson, an unarmed 19-year-old black man, was shot on March 6, 2015, in a house in Madison, Wis.
- Anthony Hill, an unarmed 27-year-old black man, was shot on March 9, 2015, in Atlanta, Ga.
- Bobby Gross an unarmed 35-year-old black man, was shot on March 12, 2015, in a subway tunnel in Washington, D.C.
- Brandon Jones an unarmed 18-year-old black man, was shot on March 19, 2015, on a street in Cleveland, Ohio.
- Eric Harris an unarmed 44-year-old black man, was shot on April 2, 2015, on a street in Tulsa, Okla.
- Walter Scott, an unarmed 50-year-old black man, was shocked with a stun gun and shot on April 4, 2015, in a parking lot in North Charleston, S.C.
- Frank Shephard an unarmed 41-year-old black man, was shot on April 15, 2015, after a car chase in Houston, Tex.
- William Chapman an unarmed 18-year-old black man, was shot on April 22, 2015, in a parking lot in Portsmouth, Va.
- David Felix an unarmed 24-year-old black man, was shot on April 25, 2015, in an apartment building in New York, N.Y.
- Brendon Glenn an unarmed 29-year-old black man, was shot on May 5, 2015, on a street in Venice, Calif. Glenn
- Kris Jackson an unarmed 22-year-old black man, was shot on June 15, 2015, in a motel in South Lake Tahoe, Calif.
- Spencer McCain an unarmed 41-year-old black man, was shot on June 25, 2015, in an apartment in Owings Mills, Md.
- Victor Emanuel Larosa an unarmed 23-year-old black man, was shot on July 2, 2015, in a yard in Jacksonville, Fla.
- Salvado Ellswood an unarmed 36-year-old black man, was shocked with a stun gun and shot on July 12, 2015, in a parking lot in Plantation, Fla.
- Albert Joseph Davis an unarmed 23-year-old black man, was shocked with a stun gun and shot on July 17, 2015, in an apartment building in Orlando, Fla.
- Darrius Stewart an unarmed 19-year-old black man, was shot on July 17, 2015, on a street in Memphis, Tenn.
- Samuel DuBose an unarmed 43-year-old black man, was shot on July 19, 2015, in Mt. Auburn, Ohio.
- Christian Taylor an unarmed 19-year-old black man, was shot on Aug. 7, 2015, in a store in Arlington, Tex.
- Asshams Pharoah Manley an unarmed 30-year-old black man, was shot on Aug. 14, 2015, in District Heights, Md. Manley
- Felix Kumi an unarmed 61-year-old black man, was shot on Aug. 28, 2015, on a street in Mount Vernon, N.Y.
- India Kager an unarmed 28-year-old black woman, was shot on Sept. 5, 2015, in Virginia Beach, Va.
- Keith Harrison McLeod an unarmed 19-year-old black man, was shot on Sept. 23, 2015, in Reisterstown, Md.
- Bennie Lee Tignor an unarmed 56-year-old black man, was shot on Oct. 31, 2015, in Opelika, Ala.
- Jamar Clarkan unarmed 24-year-old black man, was shot on Nov. 15, 2015, on a street in Minneapolis, Minn. (was shot while he was in hancuffs)
- Nathaniel Harris Pickett an unarmed 29-year-old black man, was shot on Nov. 20, 2015, in Barstow, Calif.
- Miguel Espinalan unarmed 36-year-old black man, was shot on Dec. 8, 2015, in a park in Yonkers, N.Y.
- Michael Noel an unarmed black man, was shot on Dec. 21, 2015, in Breaux Bridge, La.
- Kevin Matthews an unarmed 35-year-old black man, was shot on Dec. 23, 2015, in Dearborn, Mich
- Bettie Jones an unarmed 55-year-old black woman, was shot on Dec. 26, 2015, in an apartment in Chicago, Ill.
- Keith Childress an unarmed 23-year-old black man, was shot on Dec. 31, 2015, in Las Vegas, Nev.
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Some of these people were doing really stupid things and it's not too surprising they ended up getting shot. Some of these people had done absolutely nothing wrong and were outright murdered by the cops. And most were involved in some low level crime where lethal force was completely unjustified.
African American's only represent 12% of the US population compared to whites who make up over 61% of the US population. Yet, when we look at the numbers of unarmed people shot by the police, 32 of them were white and 38 of them were black. This means that an unarmed black person is 6 times more likely to be shot by the police than unarmed white person is.
I'd call that a very real problem!
Coded Logic

Assuming that the number is correct, do we take into account other statistics that show that black people are more likely to commit violent crimes?
Why would we need to take that into account? Is driving a violent crime?
Black people aren't being pulled over disproportionately because they've committed violent crimes. They're being pulled over because of police bias. Please do not confuse these two completely separate issues.
LisaRose

Apparently some want the expression "all lives matter" to be considered racist.
Well, yes some, just as some cops are racist, so what? That there are extremists in the movement doesn't invalidate the movement. While it isn't racist to say all lives matter, it does seem like an attempt to trivialize the BLM movement. It's not wrong for the black community to want to bring attention to this real problem by saying that black lives matter, they aren't saying or implying that other lives don't matter.
Assuming that the number is correct, do we take into account other statistics that show that black people are more likely to commit violent crimes? That 31% needs more context to be evaluated correctly.
Well, yes, we all know the statistics that black people commit more crimes, but pulling people over simply because of the color of their skin because statistically they are more likely to be involved in crime is racial profiling, and it's just plain wrong. It might make sense to the cops, but it's very unfair to the many innocent people that do get pulled over. The problem of driving while black is real.
I worked with a woman who lived in a mostly white, affluent suburb. Her husband was pulled over by the police four times in a year. There was nothing wrong with his car or his driving, he never got a ticket. He finally started wearing a cowboy hat and put a decorative decal in his pick up window and the problem stopped. Imagine if that were you, would you feel safe living in that community? How would you feel about the police? When you do get pulled over, would you not be just that much more afraid?
Things like this erode confidence in the police and may even be contributing to the problem. If you are a young black man who is struggling with the factors that make you more likely to commit crime (poverty, unemployment, peer pressure, etc.) , what effect does it have on you that the police already treat you as if you are guilty?
These are complicated issues that defy easy solutions, but racial profiling is not the solution.
Coded Logic

ALL lives matter.

"All lives" can't matter until black lives matter. That was the whole point of my OP. We respect the lives of police officers. We go to great efforts to keep them safe and make sure they have the tools they need to do their jobs. And when they fall we honor them.
We have gone to great efforts to reduce the number of police deaths in this country. And we've been successful in doing so. When a cop dies the media doesn't say things like "well he was probably a criminal" and they don't go dragging out every little misstep they've ever had in their life.
Conversely, walking down the street while black shouldn't be a hazardous job. And they shouldn't have to be in fear of those who we have charged with their protection.
Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say, "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "Everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment — Indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any!
never a jw

32 of them were white and 38 of them were black. This means that an unarmed black person is 6 times more likely to be shot by the police than unarmed white person is.
6 times? really? It depends. On the surface it sounds outrageous. But your comment needs context; for example, what is the total number of white men and the total black men detained or chased. Also, give us the statistics that show how likely white men are to be involved in criminal activities compared to the black man.
There are three types of lies "lies, damn lies, and statistics" or rather the way statistics are interpreted.
shadow

The first of the facts below seems bizarre to me, but for what it's worth shows some interesting stats.
5-devastating-facts-black-black-crime/
FACT 1. Over 1,400 more black Americans murdered other blacks in two years than were lynched from 1882 to 1968.
According to FBI data, 4,906 black people murdered other blacks in 2010 and 2011. That is 1,460 more black Americans killed by other blacks in two years than were lynched from 1882 to 1968, according to the Tuskegee Institute.
FACT 2. Black People (mostly men) commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime.
In 2012, white males were 38 percent of the population and committed 4,582 murders. That same year, black males were just 6.6 percent of the population but committed a staggering 5,531 murders.
In other words: black people–at just a fifth of the size–committed almost 1,000 more murders than their white counterparts.
The figures above highlight a horrific truth that black racialists and white liberals routinely ignore: Lawbreaking black Americans, young black males particularly, put themselves in close proximity to (mostly white male) police officers at rates sometimes five to 10 times higher than whites. This is a recipe for disaster. Thusly….
FACT 3. Despite making up just 13% of the population, blacks committed half of homicides in the United States for nearly 30 years.
DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, black people committed 52% of homicides.
In 2013, black criminals committed 38% of the murders. Whites accounted for just 31 percent.
There are five times fewer black people than white people in America and, yet, they consistently carry out a larger share of the crimes? Given this rate, it’s no wonder that there aren’t more assistances where cops kill black criminals.
FACT 4. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined.
There have been almost as many deaths in one American city as there have been in the two major wars carried out by the U.S. military this century.
Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.
FACT 5. It would take cops 40 years to kill as many black men as have died at the hands of others black men in 2012 alone.
University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime datafrom the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control andfound that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012.
Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.
never a jw

The problem of driving while black is real.
No argument. We can trace it to centuries of racism, but the job of the cops is to keep us safe by using their limited resources. They can't be stopping every race at the same rate when the criminality rates are disproportionately different. I would even suggest that the profiling involves much more than color of skin. Several factor are at play, the community in which people are stopped, the type of car they drive, their outer appearance, and yes add the "black" part. It's inevitable, based on what we learn every day, that we attached certain activities more to one group than to another. In the U.S., for example no one expects that the serial rapist, or the serial killer, or the drug dealer be from Asian descent. It happens, but it is the least common expectation. It's a lot more common to expect that the valedictorian in our local school is from Asian descent than black, even though black population may be about the same as that of Asian descent. Stereotypes are not just concocted by bigots. They are fed by events, facts, news, our own experiences. Sad reality, but we need to accept it before we try to have an honest conversation.

Racial Insensitivity

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