It would take cops 40 years to kill as many black men as have died at the hands of others black men in 2012 alone.Is this the standard we're setting for our police officers? It's okay to kill unarmed people so long as you don't commit as many killings as criminals do?
Racial Insensitivity
by Coded Logic 127 Replies latest social current
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Coded Logic
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never a jw
He finally started wearing a cowboy hat and put a decorative decal in his pick up window and the problem stopped.
Lisa,
Thank you. You proved my point. The profiling is more than skin deep.
For example, I don't fear black people who are wearing Armani suits while coming out of a business convention. Not at all. Actually, I hope I can do business with them. Conversely I fear white men with baggy, low hanging pants, an unfriendly face, tattoos all over their face and body, chains coming out of their pockets, Yes, I am profiling too. The cops must and do exactly the same. So it happens that, when they are searching for criminals, the overall profile gets more black than whites or Asians, but I doubt that the color of the skin was the only factor in the profiling. I seriously doubt, given the present social tensions, that cops are thinking "I hope I can kill another unarmed black boy today" Quite the opposite. They rather not be in that situation ever.
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never a jw
Is this the standard we're setting for our police officers? It's okay to kill unarmed people so long as you don't commit as many killings as criminals do?
Coded logic,
This is either a dishonest, or a stupid way to argue. Not much logic, is there?
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little_Socrates
I don't hate the police... I hate the police state we have become. Their supervisors and politicians are at fault. Police violence is NOT a racial issue. If I has a white man don't follow instructions just right in a police encounter I am as likely to be shot as any black man. The police are always taught to escalate and use overwhelming force. They are not trained in de-escalation tactics. If we only focus on racial problems we ignore the greater reform that is needed.
The problem with blacks and police have three factors. Number one blacks are MUCH more likely to be involved in violent crime so therefore they are more likely to have police encounters. During these encounters police are aware of the crime statistics so they will be much more likely to be on edge. This isn't racism it is just acknowledgement of the facts. And thirdly... there are cultural difference between blacks and others in how they act during police encounters. I think it is Chris Rock who said if you have a run in with the police, just do what you are told.... if you feel like you are being mistreated, you go to the station the next day and file a complaint. These comments where considered controversial just highlighting the cultural differences I mentioned.
Also most studies show that whites or Hispanics are actually more likely to be shot by the police.
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little_Socrates
There was a day when if there was a wanted man hiding in a residence... the police would just stake the place out, and wait for the suspect to emerge and then apprehend them in the least confrontational way possible. Now a days they come in at 3 in the morning on a no knock warrant and fill your house with a swat team with military weapons. Yea who thinks that is a good idea? -
Simon
Black lives matter is in no way saying everyone else's lives don't.
Sorry, that is not true. There are numerous examples of people becoming very 'agitated' if someone uses the expression "ALL lives matter".
The reality is that black lives matter people only care about black lives if killed by a white cop, not for any other far more likely causes of violent deaths and even then, they want to ignore the actual reason for the deaths if the killing was justified.
Really? Let's just look at 2015 shall we? Because, to me, it sure seems like cops are shooting UNARMED black people fairly regularly.
Well two issues with that. First, I did not say that the cops never shoot black people at all, whether armed or not. What I said is that it's unproven that the cops are specifically targeting them (to hear some narratives, they drive around taking shots at people) or are more likely to shoot someone simply because of their color. So whatever list of cases you want to copy and paste is really irrelevant - would it be negated if we posted a list of white people shot?
Some of these people were doing really stupid things and it's not too surprising they ended up getting shot.
So why do you include them in the numbers? To pad things out? The Dallas shooter will now be included in "black man killed by cops" no doubt - a perfect example of why looking at a raw total isn't enough to draw meaningful conclusions but also why someone only want to look at the total and refuse to consider the detail.
African American's only represent 12% of the US population compared to whites who make up over 61% of the US population. Yet, when we look at the numbers of unarmed people shot by the police, 32 of them were white and 38 of them were black. This means that an unarmed black person is 6 times more likely to be shot by the police than unarmed white person is.
Well done for misunderstanding statistics. There is more to this story than the stats because those stats equally tell us that black people are way more likely to be committing crime.
What matters is how many are shot in comparable circumstances, not by basing it on the entirety of a population proportion. Otherwise, one group being more law abiding would mean the police were suddenly doing a worse job elsewhere with another group (even though nothing had actually changed).
The issue of how many people are pulled over comes up time and time again and ignores the prevalence of people being stupid. Don't have broken tail-lights or expired plates or any number of other infractions. Also, the types of miles driven means that certain groups are more likely to be driving the trips that are more likely to be pulled over.
Hey, I've been pulled over more than once, each time it has been because I was going faster than the posted speed limit or had a faulty tail-light. If I'd been black would that have suddenly been the reason instead?
The simple fact is that how you are likely to be treated by police is more likely to be based on four things: whether you are committing crime in the first place, the type of crime being committed, how you respond when challenged and how wealthy you are. I think what color you are is way way down in how it affects outcomes BUT it likely has a socio-economic effect on how many black people fall into the different groups in the first place.
Now, instead of looking at proportions of the population as a whole you look at the representation within those groups and you are no longer at the 12% mark, instead it's well over 50%. The reason that black people are over-represented in the stats for being shot by police is that they are over-represented in the situations that cause people to be shot at by police.
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Simon
An example of one situation where you can claim people were treated differently is the Oregon "militia" morons.
You could argue that if it were armed black people who had taken over a bird sanctuary that the police would have stormed in, guns blazing, shooting everyone.
I think that comparison would be simplistic though. It wasn't some idiot holding up a liquor store with a gun. This was WEALTHY people who got the media involved and were making it a 2nd amendment issue and weren't stupid enough to even point their guns at the police, certainly not shoot at them. Has their been a similar situation involving a group of armed black men to compare it with? No? Why? Because the crimes committed are often probabilistically different in nature as well as how they react and behave. And yet we're meant to compare "overall totals" of stats for evidence of different treatment.
And lets not forget that the police had no trouble shooting those idiots when they had to. If they'd been black, we'd have had marches and everything. But we don't care about stupid white people who get themselves killed, why should we - what have we got in common except a skin tone?
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scary21
A few days ago I heard a black man, one of the leaders of BLM say " when I go to the Trump protest and if an officer tells me to get on the ground I will not do it "
Now that sounds crazy to me !
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Simon
Reminds me of the airport security comment made in the context of terrorist hijacking airplanes by one of the Home Land Security Secretaries under Bush (I forgot his name). He suggested that old white ladies should be screened at the same rate as young Middle Eastern males. Nice egalitarian thought, but not realistic if we want to use our limited resources in an efficient manner.
I believe you're referring to Sam Harris. Who argues for racial profiling. He argues (correctly IMO) that you only have so much "attention resource" to spend so it makes sense to spend it wisely and that doesn't mean treating everyone equally.
If you're looking for suicidal jihadists, it makes no sense for some 80yr old Grandmother from Wisconsin or little girls from Sweden to get a pat-down and treated the same as everyone else even though it's "great" from a politically correct standpoint.
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cofty
A new study has been published by Harvard University’s Rolando G. Fryer Jr. that shows there is no evidence that blacks are more likely than whites to be shot by cops. Fryer, an African-American economics professor, characterized the results as “the most surprising result of my career.”