Are you glad you got the Covid Vaccine? Did it help?

by liam 95 Replies latest social current

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    liam:

    LOL, you sound like my grandfather. [irrelevant anecdote…]

    Well that was an odd little spiel of tedious misdirection 🤦‍♂️

    Whether government health services around the world did the best things they could have done is debatable. But they were able to prevent a similar proportion of the population dying as during the Spanish flu by having lockdowns and vaccination programs. The ‘anti-vaxxer’ crowd (including that portion who ‘aren’t against all vaccines, just the covid ones’), with their misinformation, wilful ignorance, and no better solutions for managing a pandemic, are supremely ungrateful for the result that allowed health services to not be totally swamped. But aside from all of that, claiming lockdowns around the world was ‘just to prevent Trump being president’ is off-the-wall unhinged crazy.

  • peacefulpete
  • Rivergang
    Rivergang
    We ignored the lessons of 1918

    I think it is all too easy to assure ourselves that “That was then - things are different now”, and thus lapse into a false sense of security.

    Not just in disease control, either. International diplomacy may well right now be an area in which the lessons of history are being either forgotten or ignored.

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo
    LV101
    On Substack interesting article by Dr. Mike Yeadon (X-Pfizer) under the Fraud Prevention Hotline: 'Dr. Mike Yeadon against the "Covid" cartel. And: the TONED syndrome (The treatment of a non-existent disease syndrome). Article also posted on his Telegram channel.

    I cant find any information that Mike Yeadon has any expertise with vaccines. Its like saying:

    'I worked at pfizer'

    'Oh really-what did you do?"

    "Admin, but Im an expert at vaccines."

    In October, Yeadon wrote a column for the United Kingdom’s Daily Mail newspaper that also appeared on MailOnline, one of the world’s most-visited news websites. It declared that deaths caused by COVID-19, which then totaled about 45,000 in Britain, will soon “fizzle out” and Britons “should immediately be allowed to resume normal life.” Since then, the disease has killed about another 80,000 people in the UK.

    https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/

    Also, there is no mention of the vaccines in regard to this poor young girl, except social media sub-groups that are trying to exploit it without evidence. The only info I could find is that she was vaccinated in 2021 - that was 3.5 years ago!

    https://www.kake.com/news/health/kentucky-4th-grader-dies-after-collapsing-at-recess-on-first-day-of-school-family-says/article_a78bdeaa-5b38-11ef-afe9-8bd909a610ba.html

    Its good to be sceptical but it has to be balanced with informed data.


  • liam
    liam
    peacefulpete

    That article was mind-provoking. I can’t imagine how catastrophic it would have been, if the mortality and infection rate of Covid in 2021 was the same as the 1918 pandemic.

    Considering that today people travel all over the world regularly, if Covid was as deadly as the 1918 pandemic, and considering that today we have close to 400 million people living in the USA and over 8 billion world wide, the death count might have been close to a billion or billions world wide.

    And that strain of 1918 affected young, healthy and strong as well as elderly and weak. There was no compromising. It didn’t matter if you were young, strong, and healthy, if you got the virus, you were gone.

    It would have disrupted food production world wide, access to fuel in the winters, medical, water supplies, Doctors and nurses would be in short supply, and that would have caused chaos all over the world.

    That’s not even considering the disease that would erupt after so many dead bodies started to pile up because no one would want to get close to infected bodies to bury them. It would have gone down in history as the worst catastrophic world event.

    The world after such an event, might bring it back to a situation like the movie “The Road”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO8EqMsxOiU

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard
    The ‘anti-vaxxer’ crowd (including that portion who ‘aren’t against all vaccines, just the covid ones’), with their misinformation, wilful ignorance, and no better solutions for managing a pandemic, are supremely ungrateful ...

    Up front, sorry for the length...

    There absolutely was a better way to handle it, and it was no secret during the pandemic: inform the public of the risks, and let them naturally do what's best based on their risk profile.

    The problem was that from the start of the pandemic the relevant risk information was suppressed and hidden as much as possible. Everyone was asking "what's the death rate?" But there were no clear answers. There was, however, a lot of stoked-up fear. There were articles, polls, and interviews, even recently, that showed (especially among people on the left, undoubtedly because of where they got their news) the perceived chance of death after contracting c19 was 50%. Nevertheless, near the beginning people were attempting to compare the death rate to the flu - not in an attempt to claim it was the flu (even though some said that), but people were looking for a baseline for risk. The flu has a risk to it. People die from it. I know a young boy that died from it. Very tragic. But every year there is a risk. And people wanted to figure out their risk profile and decide accordingly. What they wanted to know is how does the average, healthy human fair against COVID vs the flu. To this day we still don't know the real death rate. But what we DID KNOW at the time is that for kids and young people, the risk was extremely low. It went up when you got over 60, or if you had complicating factors. So, the elderly and sick should be isolated - not the entire economic system. Don't shut down schools. Don't shut down businesses.

    Two weeks to stop the spread turned into a complete shut down. And the risk ... the risk that people were experiencing didn't match the extreme shut down measures. We got news about over-capcity hospitals - but there again, the details were hidden. Hospitals defined "full capacity" as having all the patients the current staff could handle. That could be 10% of actual beds. What followed from that? Well, in NY they brought in ships for more room. But they never saw any patients. Or the "overflow" from hosptials was moved to nursing homes - into direct contact with the highest risk demographic. Meanwhile the healthiest thing - getting sunshine - was prohibited. Some states like FL did fight back, with good results.

    I think we are just starting to feel the real consequences of the shut down, combined with the money printing. Two years ago the average house price was $215K. Now it's $400K. I have four kids, and you can't convince me food prices haven't at least doubled.

    And here is where it started to cross into politics. The high level of fear mongering played right into justification for the lockdowns. And the people pushing it have always had an anti-captalist bent. It became clearer that if these "emergencies" were actually exceptions to constitutional rights, then we really don't have rights. Just claim a crisis, hype it up, and start doing what you want... you know, for the good of everyone. And you didn't have to wait long to find validation of that. It seems C19 was an exception to every aspect of the 1st ammendment.

    So, IMHO there wasn't some grand conspiracy to release C19 in order to exert more governmental control. But once it was out there, it was sure used to that end. And for the conspiracy minded, it can be really hard not to infer intent - especially when you don't trust the good intentions of the leftists (which you should never do anyway). Keep in mind, this is the exact time that the WEF collectively got the most massive authoritarian erection they've ever had, while publishing their plans for "The Great Reset".

    The vaccines are a completely different story. They started out as project Warp Speed - and that was a Trump sponsored program.

    The objection to the mRNA vaccines in general goes something like this: The mechanism for the vaccine, from the people who developed the technology, is to inject messenger RNA into healthy cells. The mRNA encodes what it needs to mass produce some molecule that you wish to inform the immune system about - in this case the spiked protein used as a receptor for C19. Healthy cells then produce the spiked protein, the immune system reacts, targeting this protein for the future. This is all well and good. However, the immune system still has to go after the formerly healthy cells that have been hijacked. These healthy cells, presumably, are the arm muscle tissue where the injection takes place. And, presumably, we dont hijack too many cells (whatever that means). And, presumably, all the vaccine stays in the arm. But what if it doesn't? What if it sticks around longer than expected? What if the vaccine circulates, what happens when it hijacks a healthy heart cell or brain cell?

    The answer is that you would expect to see cases of heart inflamation - if heart tissue is involved. If it's circulating, causing damage to blood vessels, you might expect to see blood clots and strokes. And not necessarily immediately after taking the vaccine. And, that seems to be the type of signal we see in adverse vaccine reporting systems - whether foreign or VAERS.

    None of the above is conspiratorial. All that's required is to believe the obvious facts: the government through a ton of money at pharma, including emergency use immunity, and pharma was happy to pull out whatever tech they had at the time. The mRNA tech was not new. Why didn't they use it prior to this is an interesting question to consider, however.

    It turned political when Trump lost, and the vaccine was handed over to the left. When it was Trump's vaccine, it was to be viewed with disdain. But after the election, it was the best thing ever. And if it had stopped there (with the shift in positions), we could just chalk it up to normal two-faced politics. But nope - the lockdowns continued. And, in fact, those who were vaccine skeptical (even under Trump) were now the REASON why the lockdowns couldn't stop. Businesses were pressured to "encourage" vaccination, sometimes with employment on the line (look at the Tyson foods lawsuits). Vaccine passports and other insane leftist programs were pushed.

    Suddenly, for the conspiracy minded, it's easy to see intent where there was none.

    Same thing with the election. There wasn't some worldwide "they" behind the release of the virus. But once it was out there, it was used to push mail in voting, despite it violating state constitutions. Everyone could see the ballot train wreck coming. SCOTUS should have taken that case. That's a whole different topic, though.

    But to the conspiracy minded, the pattern matches.

    In the end, what's obvious to me : the left is nuts, the government is too big, we shouldn't be funding gain-of-function research. The government needs to be put back in its box. No more power to lock down, not for a virus, not for climate change. No WHO control, no vaccine passports. Emergencies can't bypass rights. I think if that were codified somehow, you would have a lot less shenanigans from the left.

    Unfortunately , that would reinforce conspiracy theories.

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    MeanMrMustard
    Emergencies can't bypass rights.

    The effects of the all the added extras surrounding the pandemic was worse than the pandemic. Government/ police over-reach, supply chain interruptions, rampant inflation, businesses losses and mental health issues to name a few.

  • liam
    liam
    MeanMrMustard

    That was a pretty good summation. It covered everything perfectly.

    In the end, what's obvious to me : the left is nuts, the government is too big, we shouldn't be funding gain-of-function research. The government needs to be put back in its box.

    I agree, the Government is too Big! I had a course in Political Science and the professor said that in order to save humanity from tyranny, we need to decentralize Nation-States.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_hWr834h4M


  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Best estimate is that the death rate of those infected with Spanish influenza was about .6%. to some today that would seem hardly worth worrying about.

    Our first set of data with COVID-19 came from China and it looked like the fatality rate was much higher , more like that of related outbreaks like SARS and MERS.

    Out of 17,238 early COVID-19 cases 321 ended in death. Nearly 2%. As we know data was incomplete and we got better at treating it and vaccinations primed immune systems to cope when they were exposed. It also helped the virus mutated to a less virulent strain. Looking back the best estimated cfr was about 1.2%

    What I'm getting at is we lived through genuine history. At least most of us did.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    MMM:

    There absolutely was a better way to handle it, and it was no secret during the pandemic: inform the public of the risks, and let them naturally do what's best based on their risk profile.
    The problem was that from the start of the pandemic the relevant risk information was suppressed and hidden as much as possible.

    Some people like to tout this conspiracy that information was ‘suppressed’. Back in reality, details were unknown rather than suppressed, particularly at the beginning of the pandemic. Unlike armchair experts who ‘do their own research’ by watching conspiracy nutters on YouTube, national health services had to do actual research rather than vacillating from one pet theory to another. They intentionally erred on the side of caution to try to minimise the number of deaths, which resulted in varying degrees of inconvenience but a lot fewer deaths than might have otherwise been the case. But for people who can’t see beyond their tiresome political biases, everything is a grand conspiracy.

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