by IronGland 32 Replies latest jw friends
Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would remind his disciples what he said and, that he, the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth.This is the same as the Old Testament when Gods words were written down by men carried along by the Holy Spirit such as Moses.
How can one tell the difference between someone "carried along by the Holy Spirit" and someone who's insane or a conman?
In the ancient world it was common for teachers to teach and leave the writing to the students. Everything we know of Socrates was written by Plato.
Good point, JeffT.
Blondie
Funkyderek-
How can one tell the difference between someone "carried along by the Holy Spirit" and someone who's insane or a conman?
Watch your words my dear. I suggested in another thread that Jesus might be schizophrenic and I got jumped on .
Watch your words my dear. I suggested in another thread that Jesus might be schizophrenic and I got jumped on
It's OK Stinky. I like getting jumped on!
Azaria, I dont call myself a confirmed atheist. If a label is required I would use agnostic. Although I don't believe in any particular religion, I am interested in human behavior. I don't believe in Zeus for example, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be interested in discussing paganism with an ancient greek. Think about someone from the far future getting to go back in time and speak to the quaint locals from the 21st century about their strange religious beliefs. Well, I kinda get to do that.
How about a Doubting Dogmatic Agonistic Agnostic. A Doubting Dogmatic Agnostic Agonistic. I dogmatically doubt that it is possible to know for certain whether there is a god, and if anyone doesn’t believe me, you’d better. Please don’t laugh at me. I know it’s not quite right but I tried.
IronGland: I wasn’t sure if you were being sarcastic or sincere when you asked the question. If I offended you, I’m sorry. I enjoy a lively discussion about a lot of things as long as everybody’s opinion is respected. I just noticed your age-91yrs. Someone closer to my age! (just kidding) I’m only 54. So many here seem to be in their 20's. And JH thinks he’s getting old. You’re really only as old as you feel. Life begins at 50! Most of the time (unless I’ve had to work too long) I feel younger than I am.
Double edge:
...it would be 'nice' to have something that Jesus wrote, but that wouldn't change anything at all. Believers and non-believers alike would be having the exact same conversations .... it all boils down to FAITH... a substantiated faith, one that is NOT belief, just for belief's sake.
I agree with you. I'm not sure if Jesus had written anything down, if people would still not have opposing views. (how do you know that Jesus wrote these words, etc)
Gopher:
I think that jgnat and JeffT answered nicely; at least I think so. (always trying to be careful how I phrase things-I'm not being sarcastic) I think you gave me the sites for Jackie Wilson etc. ThanksStinky Pantz:
First I want to tell you that if I came across as being annoyed with you, it really isn’t the case. I do feel sometimes that you’re like a bulldozer, but I wasn’t having the problem with you. It was someone else, but I am over it. If this person insults me again, I will just tell him, so it’s clear who I’m annoyed with, not that I think he would care one way or the other.I will never be able to give you a satisfactory answer that will make you believe in God. If that was the case, that someone could just convince someone else, I’m not totally sure if I would be a believer. Maybe it’s the stubborn streak in me; I don’t like to be told how I should think or feel. I did not grow up in a religious home. I’m not sure if either of my parents believed in God when I was growing up. They became JW’s when I had already left the house. At first I believed in God because a lot of people around me were Christians. When you’re young, you believe in what most people believe, without really thinking about it. I’ve always been a little curious when some people say that they have been believers since they were little children and never questioned it. My faith came very gradually.
gnat:
Christianity is a very personal experience, that is best spread one-on-one, with people that know us well. To share our hearts and expose ourselves others, good and bad, requires a degree of openness and honesty that leaves us vulnerable and exposed. This kind of communion takes great courage and discipline. Jesus exposed his heart to his disciples regularly, and told them to model their behaviourafter him. Note the emphasis on action rather than empty words. His approach was obviously very successful. Fellowship, friendship, and sharing hits a deep chord with us all.
I personally agree with you. Each person has to find the answers himself, but I do think that one has to be really open to it.
Dansk:
Perhaps they are still in pain through being duped by Watchtower and so question anything to do with "Christianity". I understand this. I now question everything, also - though, hopefully, not with anger.
You could be right, and I think I’ve tried to be sensitive to that. I don’t think there is anything wrong with questioning, That’s the only way that you may get an answer.
Greven: I deliberately used atheists’ belief because I think that all people have a belief system, whether they believe in God, Wicca, in themselves, others, wealth, success, etc. I do agree with you that there are also Christians who can be very obnoxious. I sometimes wonder if those who are so adamant (in whatever they believe), do they full heartedly believe or are they just trying to convince themselves? - I don’t know) As I stated earlier, I don’t have a problem in discussing differing points of view as long as everyone involved is respected for their opinions. As far as evolution is concerned I don’t personally believe in evolution as I think atheists believe. But I do believe we do evolve over time. I accept the fact (unless proven otherwise) that we all come from one group of people (most likely from Africa) and gradually evolved to the different races we have today. As for my question, if you don’t believe in something, then why argue about it; my problem was not in discussing but arguing. Besides I’m not sure if I want to discuss something for very long that I didn’t believe in; what would be the point? As for trying to convince others, as I’ve stated, that’s not my goal. I don’t think anyone can really convince someone else with words, not when it comes to faith or lack of. (but I do worry about younger people who might come here and may be very impressionable) I think it has to go deeper than that. If I were to believe someone it wouldn’t necessarily be because of what the person has said, but by how they live their life. ..............(so hoe gaat het in Nederland?)FunkyDerek: How can one tell the difference between someone "carried along by the Holy Spirit" and someone who's insane or a conman?I think you can kind of tell if the person is rational, or acting bizarre. The conman? I don’t know. I can think of a few on TV that I wonder about - but I don’t know for sure. Just hope that most of us have good judgement; to look into things before accepting what anyone else says.
Francois: I like your posts. I’m sure there will be times that I may not necessarily agree with you, or you with me, but you always seem like a gentleman to me, like JamesThomas. But maybe I’m wrong?Hope my grammar isn’t too atrocious and the post too long. But maybe you have all left already.
Azaria-
I do feel sometimes that you’re like a bulldozer,
Sorry. I have noticed that over the last couple of months, I've turned into a total bitch. Sorry if you were caught in the crossfire. I'm under a lot of stress (i.e. car being totaled, moving cross-country, shunning of my parents, wanting kids, etc). I do admit that that's no excuse though.
How can one tell the difference between someone "carried along by the Holy Spirit" and someone who's insane or a conman?I think you can kind of tell if the person is rational, or acting bizarre.
Really? How? People who claim to have holy spirit don't tend to act rationally. They don't even claim to be acting rationally. They claim to be speaking with the voice of god. I find it very hard to distinguish between someone who "really" hears God's voice and someone who believes they hear it because they're mentally ill.
The conman? I don’t know. I can think of a few on TV that I wonder about - but I don’t know for sure.
Doesn't the very fact that you don't know for sure tell you how good they are at it? Some of them of course, you should know for sure because they've been caught out embezzling or whoring
Just hope that most of us have good judgement; to look into things before accepting what anyone else says.
Ha! What are you basing that hope on? Most people don't have good judgment. Like you, they can't tell which TV evangelists are conmen and which aren't. Many religions don't value good judgment at all. They rely on faith and revelation instead of reason. Good judgment can't distinguish between different articles of faith.
This forum is not limited to christians, agnostics, athiests and other adjectives that necessitate a particular label as such.
Iron Gland posted a very provocative question. Yup, even got me scratching my head.
Turns out, this question is really a 'Question for Everybody', wouldn't you agree?
We're all, for the most part, participants on this forum because of some association either previous/present (potential future wannabee members) of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I know, no surprise; no revelation.
If someone is a christian, I would like to think that their faith is strong enough to endure question or debate. It really should not offend.
Many of us whom had been either christian or are considering joining the ranks: have questions that need answering.
As Jdubs - you didn't ask questions, if you did...well that's why so many of us are former members. In religious settings from the days of old, questioning could bring on accusations of heresy (with rather negative outcomes).
People have questions, christian or non-christian etc., let's not stifle our inquisitiveness.
I'm glad questions pertaining to god/jesus/christianity have been discussed. Things that I had no answers for, were discussed via this forum and it helped give me further resolve in my decision regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses and Christianity as well.
Now that we have shed the cloak of silence, shall we proceed then.....?
