O.K Cofty, so it is just that the Con. Government is totally unfit to Govern in this crisis then ? and nothing deliberate about their major cock ups. I see.
Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Status Update Thread
by Simon 656 Replies latest jw friends
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Phizzy
Maybe this is helpful to see where our NHS in the U.k is, in comparison to others. Spending on Healthcare as a % of GDP does not tell the whole picture, U.S.A spends far more than we do for a service that does not work for all.
: "
In 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare, which was around the median for members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development: OECD (£2,913 per person).
However, of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736).
As a percentage of GDP, UK healthcare spending fell from 9.8% in 2013 to 9.6% in 2017, while healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP rose for four of the remaining six G7 countries.
The UK’s publicly funded NHS-based health system contributes to the UK having one of the highest shares of publicly funded healthcare (79%) in the OECD.
In 2017, the UK spent the equivalent of £560 per person on health-related long-term care, which was less than most other northern or western European countries, but a similar amount to France (£569) and Canada (£556). "
Regardless of how good or bad our Health Services are, this Covid19 virus has been a huge challenge for all, and is a warning for all Nations to prepare as best they can for the future.
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cofty
The NHS has coped amazingly well with the logistical support of the armed forces.
Nobody who needed a respirator has had to be declined. The new hospitals have not been required but will now be able to take more of the burden of Corona patient care allowing normal medical services to resume.
Increases in financial support for the NHS before the pandemic was significant and no effort has been spared since the start of this crisis.
Mistakes have been made on epidemic preparedness by most countries and this must be a priority in the future.
I shudder to imagine what state we would be in now if Great Britain-hating Corbyn and his Trotskyite cronies had been in charge.
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joey jojo
Im watching stuff on the tv that is hard to believe.
People in the USA protesting nurses because they are for quarantine, calling them fake actors, fake nurses, etc??!! Gathering in groups to protest this stuff. Claiming their rights shouldn't be affected by covid-19.
It must take a special kind of stupid to behave like that.
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BlackPuddingEater
Unfortunately I don’t find that hard to believe at all. If my life has taught me anything it is that people will behave in a funny old way once they have an idea in their head they think is right.
I was talking to my allotment neighbour who has worked in domestic abuse and she said the language the government has use is similar to that of an abuser, not that the government is abusive but that it is grooming the public slowly to tolerate an intolerable situation. I know what she means, I keep getting the feeling that I know the announcement before its announced. We are facing the very real deaths from the pandemic, an economic depression that will also have a toll on health and the one that I am most concerned with getting right, maintaining order in society.
We were told yesterday in the UK by Chris Whitty “Until we have those (vaccine and drugs), and the probability of having those anytime in the next calendar year, are incredibly small, and I think we should be realistic about that, we’re going to have to rely on other social measures.” I don’t think that the presence of the army when this was finally reviled was a coincidence.
Two other quotes I took note of from that briefing.
From Dominic Raab “for many countries around the world, including modern democracies, the site of their military on the streets in a national emergency could be a cause for concern or even trepidation. But for the British people, the site of our armed forces working side by side with our brilliant NHS staff offers a calm reassurance that the task is at hand and that we will come through this crisis.”
And finally from General Nick Carter “Our armed forces are drawn from every part of the United Kingdom and much of the Commonwealth, and they take great pride in serving the communities that they are part of.”
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BluesBrother
"There have been a further 616 coronavirus-related deaths in UK hospitals, the Department of Health has said.
It takes the total number of COVID-19 patients to have died in UK hospitals to 18,738. That is the lowest weekday increase in the last three weeks - since 2 April "
Dare we hope ?
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Phizzy
This is, as you say BB, the figure for deaths in Hospital, so deaths in Care Homes and the rest of the community take the total up to, it has been estimated, around 40,000, maybe more, we have no testing to speak of, so how many die in the community we cannot know.
I think it is a danger to perhaps read too much in to a daily or weekly figure, I think within two or three weeks it is possible we may see the figures going up, people are incubating it, without symptoms, and with people entering the U.K, from all sorts of places, some hot spots, with no testing, or follow up scrutiny of their health, the disease can be spread exponentially, and numbers go up a lot.
I hope I am wrong, I hope our partial lock down may be working well, but I am not overly optimistic.
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stan livedeath
re--UK lockdown.
i was talking onlinea couple of weeks ago to a member of a very different forum..this guy is a real computer geek. he ran a computer model of death numbers in the UK if there was no lockdown or intervention. he calculated there would have been between 200 and 400 thousand deaths--by then.
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BlackPuddingEater
I trust the guy with the computer. The geek shall inherit the earth.
Keeping the Basic reproduction number, R(0), below 1 now will reduce the number of NHS beds needed over time. That is the simple maths. The hard part is keeping it low while releasing enough people to create a need for currently unviable businesses and their employees, who are at the moment are a burden on our resources and can only be for so long.
There are still a lot of essential businesses like power, gas water, food manufacture, transport and communications still functioning. I go into work, we haven't had and outbreak in 4 weeks. Two meters apart, wash hands, don't touch your face, not hard. Small shops can operate with social distancing in place as well if not better than supermarkets. Schools can open for years either coming up to exams or in transition. Pubs, clubs and restaurants will be much later to open if they can operate profitably with reduced numbers.
I don't feel as though I can describe my situation as locked down, as i say I still commute and i can go up my allotment to hit mud altough for a reduced time. I feel more inconvenienced. In years to come I'm know I'm going to feel pretty stupid telling my grandchildren I lived through the great inconvenience of 2020 when my grandparents lived trough the blitz! We have the internet they had George bloody Formby and the Ovaltineys!!
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Simon
Looks like the R0 value has been cracked in most states (see image below).
The original reason for the lockdowns was to "flatten the curve". That has been achieved. Hospitals are not overloaded, they have huge capacity. It's time to open things up so that we try to use that capacity.
If things start to become overloaded, then we apply the brakes, ... "if". Right now we have the hand-brake on and we're not going anywhere at all and it's unsustainable.
We don't need government laws and rules, they have gone overboard, they need to back off. People will naturally divide into risk-takers, who want to go out, and risk-avoiders, who will limit their exposure, wear masks etc... Human kind has always relied on a mix of explorers and trail-blazers and conservatives. Now is the time for the risk-takers to shine, to test the waters. We have functioning healthcare systems to respond to outbreaks.
Unless we're all going to be happy being locked up for a vaccine that could still be a year or more away (or it's possible could never exist!) then we need to accept that there will be a certain number of deaths.
The problem we're in now is that politicians were rightly held to the fire for their lack of action which allowed this to spread and become a pandemic, they now won't want to act and open things up because people will blame subsequent deaths on them.
Unlucky - but your personal political career is not the primary concern. The decisions should be made at a local level based on the environment there and the local healthcare system.
