To Veil or Not to Veil, that is the question.

by Yerusalyim 68 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Abaddon

  I'd advise people to read up on the life story of Mohammed. It can help illuminate some characteristics of the Islamic faith, especially with regard to the veil.

  I think it someone could drive wearing a bandana over their lower face, then they could drive with a veil - provided they meet the vision requirements. Of course, y'all can set up road blocks, so only those with "American" impairments to vision get to pursue their god-given right to be dumb, and the scarey lady with the hankie over her face can get the bus...

  As for the photo issue... it seems there's already leeway in the law to allow non-photo driver licences.

  teenyuck; a judge is not competant to pass judgement on interpretation of religious law, so your comparison of blood vs. veil does not stand. Some Christians are strict, some are not. You're saying all Muslims should do the same thing. Are going to force feed strict Catholics meat on Friday?

  And where did you get 'willingly join' from? Yeah, some do, but most are just sucked into it on the coat-tails of their birth family's culture, which is something we can all understand. I realise you feel strongly about the issue, but I think you'll find that your country has laws that prevent people being abducted by the government and reprogrammed.

  The idea of an American woman subjecting herself to this is unbelievable. There are many here who are obviously blond and from the USA who knowingly put on a veil when they get married to some hairy bastard from the middle east. Stupid. They are setting back women's rights.

  No matter how right you are about women's rights doesn't take away that quote sounding racist... (not saying you are). If you'd not call someone a black bastard from Africa, I think you'd better not call entire populations hairy bastards from the Middle East.

  And everyone, what action is being taken to liberate the oppressed women of the Mormons and Amish? I agree oppressing women is a bad thing, but so far, it seems everyone is really keen on liberating the ones who are obviously foreign looking, and the home-grown variety is overlooked.
• 

  gitasatsangha

  hams, I try to see it on both sides

  On the one side, Islam is an old religion that has had its cultural footprint on many countries throughout history. Many muslims are peaceful, good citizens.

  On the other hand most muslims support violence in the name if islam. They've turned every area they control into a cultural backwater with no scientific progress and little to show except for endless cycles of war at the hands of despots. Their religion's founder was a violent pedophile, and the religion grew, not on its merits, but at the point of the sword. The only reason anyone is worried about how muslims are treated is the threat that they might be next. Islam is a disease on mother earth, and the very worst of the monotheistic cults.

  They should get their damn picture taken showing their face, if they want to drive.
• 

  teenyuck

  And where did you get 'willingly join' from? Yeah, some do, but most are just sucked into it on the coat-tails of their birth family's culture, which is something we can all understand. I realise you feel strongly about the issue, but I think you'll find that your country has laws that prevent people being abducted by the government and reprogrammed.

  This woman joined....seemingly willingly. As Reborn noted, her history is spotty. The local woman I have observed are either white Americans or white Europeans. They are marrying into the faith. To me, that is stupid. Then again, as I noted, having a bad hair day (or life-) can really make you rethink the whole veil idea.

  Taking them to be deprogrammed was tongue-in-cheek.

  teenyuck; a judge is not competant to pass judgement on interpretation of religious law

  Judge's here have to interpert religious law all the time. That is the problem. They have to look at the laws on the books and how those laws could harm someone's religious freedom. They have to research and get expert opinions to make a decision. That is why it is before a judge. Someone has to decide and *pass judgement*.

  I think you'd better not call entire populations hairy bastards from the Middle East.

  My mother married an Iraqi hairy bastard, who beat the shit out of her for two years. And yes, he was a hairy bastard. If that sounds racist, too bad. It is not, nor am I. His brother was hairy, his mother and sister were hairy and all of his Iraqi friends were hairy. Whether or not they were bastards in the true sense of the word, I am not sure. In the usual sense of the word, he fit the bill. I see an American woman marrying into that culture and I see my mother. Face black and blue. Being told she is scum and less than nothing.

  If calling someone a hairy bastard is being rascist, we are all in trouble. That means I cannot joke about people from Britian having bad teeth!
• 

  bigboi

  I'm sure there are times where it is not proper for a woman to wear a veil. For instance, I'd doubt Allah would mind if she took it off to take her shower. The purpose of a driver's license is for identification and to indicate driver competency as far as far as the DMV can measure it. It is crucial for purposes of identification that ppl not be allowed to wear hats and other things that can alter their appearance.
• 

  teenyuck

  It is crucial for purposes of identification that ppl not be allowed to wear hats and other things that can alter their appearance.

  Great point bigboi. They make men take off hats, why not the veil?
• 

  Hamas

  They should get their damn picture taken showing their face, if they want to drive.

  That is what I said.
• 

  funkyderek

  They should get their damn picture taken showing their face, if they want to drive.

  And when they're stopped by a traffic cop, should they have to show their face then?
• 

  IslandWoman

  The purpose of the photo is for proof of I.D. The photo is used everywhere from banks to movie theatres for indentification and proof of age purposes.

  She has freedom of religion, she can wear her veil to her hearts content. But the United States should also have freedom of common sense and it is common sense that a photo of a veiled woman (or man) is not a proper form of ID.

  As for the veiled women in the Muslim religion, last summer on the beach there was a father in a bathing suit playing in the water with his two young sons also in bathings suits, while the mother stood in the hot sun watching. She was veiled from head to toe in black! If she is doing that because it pleases God, who told her it pleases God? The religious leaders of her faith have trained her up that way, not God!

  But it must be said that many women trained to live in submissive postures can find comfort and security in such an arrangement. The problem is freedom, is she free to be submissive by choice and with open eyes or is she submissive because she has been molded to be? If it is by free choice then it is her right to live with her husband as she pleases.

  Fundamentalist religions, though, that continue to force upon women the old male domination ways of the ancient world will change, their women are waking up and will force changes upon them in ways that will make jihads look like child's play.

  IW
• 

  happyout

  Funkyderek,

  Yes, when they are stopped by a traffic officer, if requested, they should show their face.

  The bottom line is, religious freedom cannot infringe upon the laws of the land. Take Mormons. They honestly believe, and can biblically prove, that polygamy is approved by God. However, the laws of the US forbid this, and therefore, they don't do it. Or rather, they didn't, and now they are being arrested and jailed if they continue. Same with the veil. If the law requires a driver's license to show the individual's face, and someone elects not to show their face, then they have forfeited their priviledge to drive. It's not difficult, it's not persecution, it's not racism, IT'S THE LAW.

  Happyout (pissed that her tax dollars might be wasted on this crap)
• 

  gitasatsangha

  And when they're stopped by a traffic cop, should they have to show their face then?

  Absolutely. This is a no-brainer.