To Veil or Not to Veil, that is the question. (page 4)

funkyderek

Absolutely. This is a no-brainer.

Despite the fact that it is against their religious beliefs to do so, and that the American constitution guarantees free exercise of religion?

Yerusalyim

REBORN,

Good God, ya mean we agree on something? Hot darn!

Teeny,

You said,

Do all Muslim women wear veils? No. End of lawsuit. The judge can point to those that don't as an example of why she should have to remove the veil for any privileges. Again, why any woman, raised in a free country (USA, Canada, Britian, etc) willingly join a repressive faith, that is worse than the dubs, is stupid. Why give up your rights? Oh, yeah, God. Those woman need to be spirited away to a deprogramming camp.

Religious Accomodation doesn't work like that under the law. Generally speaking the criteria is "sincerely held religious belief" The courts, employers, schools, etc must prove due cause to disallow a religious accomodation, even if it's not common. Here in the Army, even though I'm not Jewish, I could wear a kippah (skull cap) if it was religiously significant to me.

You keep refering to Islam as a repressive religion, the repression is more cultural than religious. In fact, until Women's suffarage was approved women in muslim countries generally had more rights than Western women.

ISP

I'd say in matters of ID...the veil has to go.

ISP

Reborn2002

Despite the fact that it is against their religious beliefs to do so, and that the American constitution guarantees free exercise of religion?

Are you playing Devil's Advocate? Or are you just resorting to semantics to try and make a opposig viewpoint? What you said is sheer and utter nonsense Funky.

To clarify for you, yes, she has the absolute right to practice her religion. Yes, the United States Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion. But if those beliefs conflict with the law, then the law takes priority. There are also laws of the land that must be abided by, and these laws supercede one's personal right to religion.

As an example, Mohammed Atta and other hijackers/extremists had the right to practice Islam. Even if it is extreme fundamental Islam which indoctrinates in them that they are the only true religion, God uses them as a vassal for his work, and unbelievers should be condemned to death, if that is their belief. However, taking action is another matter entirely. America guarantees the free exercise of Islam and any other religion. But by your logic that justifies their hideous acts on 9/11/01? Because of the free exercise of religion?

Likewise, this woman has the right to practice Islam. Period. However, driving is a privilege, not a right. Getting a permanent driver's license requires having your picture taken for photo identification. She knew this. The police use photo ID to identify people in traffic stops and other incidents. She was unwilling to comply with the laws and requirements to get a driver's license. Therefore, she forfeits her right to one. I live here in Orlando where this is happening, and in fact the trial was going on today as we speak with ongoing news coverage. The court building is about 10 minutes from my home. It is highly suspect that she was arrested two years ago for domestic battery and had a mug shot taken in prison with no veil. I suppose that did not violate her religious beliefs? Surely you can see the double-standard here.

If she were to win this case (which I believe she will not) it would establish a precedent that it is acceptable for people to abuse religious freedoms so as to skirt around the law. In our day and age, this is simply unacceptable.

Criminals would next be saying they cannot be fingerprinted or identified because it goes against their religious tenets.

Give me a break.

Country Girl

At this point, perhaps. But not for long. Iris identification will be the next step. The eyes will automatically identify the person, so the veil question will be moot in a few years. The cop will just be able to pull the person with the veil over and survey their eyes with an identification gun, and that's it. They know who they are, provided they have given their iris sample to the motor vehicle division.

On the same note, there's NO law in Islam that you can't take off your veil at certain points, as far as I know... and yes, I don't know for sure. I do know that they have to take them off to take a shower. What does the Quoran say about taking the veil off for legal authorities and doctors? Would be interesting to know.

Country Girl

gitasatsangha

Despite the fact that it is against their religious beliefs to do so, and that the American constitution guarantees free exercise of religion?

The freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights are absolute in theory, only in that they do not infringe upon each other. Neither are they without subjection to regulation. For instance you have the right to assemble, but you don't have the right to throw up an assembly building that does not pass building code. You have the right to practice worship as you choose, but not human sacrifice, even if the sacrificee is willing. You have the right to own a gun, but you can't if you are a felon. You have the right to free speech, but you do not have the right to slander and liber another person.

Free exercize of religion and Sharya Law do not mix very well. However it must be said, that Muhammed said that it was better to wear a veil of humility rather then a physical one. So do we take every interpretation into account? That fact is that muslim women can wear veils, but if they want to drive on public roads they must have a driver's liscence. The driver's liscence must have a clear identification on it. Law enforcement must be able to properly identify the driver. If all muslim women have a liscence with the same non-descript veiled image, how can police do their job without violating the right of Due Process?

Now here is something you may not have thought of: I would suspect many of these muslim women have passports or have used one at one point or another. Do you think think that Immigration accepts a veilled picture? No and they cannot be expected to.

Simon

This just sounds like an excuse to make an issue out of something and generate some bad feeling and intollerance.

If the law already allows for her to be veiled then it's Ok. If not, they she either takes the veil off for the photo which she doesn't have to go round showing to people unless she commits a driving offense or she doesn't drive.

Country Girl

I believe driving is a right.. since you should be able to go where you want, provided you don't infringe on people's land or rights. I believe that how you get there is none of the government's business, as long as no one is wreaking any havoc. Whether you want to get somewhere by motor vehicle or horse.. as long as it doesn't interfere with other people, you have a perfectly legal right to get there. I realize that laws are necessary to protect people from accidents and stuff, but that is my own ideal. Here is an interesting reading page:

http://www.svpvril.com/drilic.html

Country Girl

Valis

How stupid...take the goddam thing off and take your picture like the rest of us....we don't live in a theocracy and when it comes to identifying yourself, either do it or don't drive. Simple to me......Egypt and Jordan apparently have no problem w/thier women taking thier viels off for driver's licenses...she is an idiot and perhaps should be sent to a country where she might understand the gravity of her stance...to a place where she hasn't a choice of taking it off for fear of a beating or death....My dislike for religious freaks grows all the time..

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

Lady Lee

Many women who wear the veil do so only with men. At home or with other women they may take it off. I wonder if she might be more willing if a woman took the picture?

Just one thought here

It is in a large part due to the JW that freedom of religious rights sometimes takes precedence over the law.

You can't pick and choose which religious rights and freedoms will be honored.

Men in the Canadian Mounties have won the right to wear their turbans instead of the tradition hat. Religious rights often are considered higher than legal rights

Change the law if you don't like it

To Veil or Not to Veil, that is the question.

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