Fred Franz and high IQ (page 2)

larc

Hillary,

Thank you for your interest and concern for me and my dear wife. We are doing relatively well. Things are improving for Jan, not as quickly as hoped, but improving, nonetheless.

Onacruse,

When discussing an issue, please differentiate the comments of the posters. I said that Franz was of relative intelligence. I did not address his ability as a scholar. I believe it was Hillary who brought up his being a scholar.

Now, you are saying that someone can be a president of a major corporation/organization and not be intelligent? Prove it with research, not assertions. Give one specific example, a case study, where a growing organization was run by someone of low intelligence.

jst2laws

petespal2002

I recall reading somewhere that in his lifetime Fred Franz was listed as one of the most intelligent men in the USA

While he may have truly been one of the best the WT has had this certainly does not qualify him as "one the most intelligent men in the USA".

Larc,

I do believe that old Freddy was a smart man. You can not rise to be president of any large organization without being of relative intelligence. I do, believe that the Watchtower statements are a tad exaggerated

You are right, you do not get there being a fool. Freddie was smart and in my mind also scholarly. But then I'm not a scholar so I'm no judge of that.

Another factor that must be considered, however, is that no one progressed in the WT organization unless the man making decisions knows you and trusts you. All of the GB members appointed in the early 70's (when the GB OFFICIALLY came into existence) were long time members of the Bethel family acquaintances of Knorr.

LOYAL SUPPORT OF THE ORGANIZATION! Freddie was well connected from the early 1920's loyally working in writing keeping his mouth shut when they spewed out garbage and fully supporting the dogma he truly believed. He was there for Knorr when the presidency changed and together formed the first of its kind. The new president ran business and largely deferred spiritual (scriptural) matters to this senior writer, seeming scholar, and friend.

Freddie obviously did not have to compete with other "scholars" for his position as spiritual guru of the organization. I suspect that through the history of the WT most scholarly members either backed away or got thrown out so that would limit the pool of 'smart men' to rise to the top. Among those left Freddie stood out alone, but loyalty and connection played the largest role in my mind.

Just another angle to consider.

Jst2laws

Faraon

I recall reading somewhere that in his lifetime Fred Franz was listed as one of the most intelligent men in the USA. Can anyone think to what I am referring?

I agree.

How many people did he fool and had under his control?

nowisee

it was sometime in the mid to late 60's. my family was invited to a slide show of freddy's recent overseas trip in a gathering of friends. (my father by this time was taking issue with certain wt flip-flops.)

freddy was narrating and russ kirzen was handling the projector. several of the slides had been taken vertically, and in order to view them they were inserted into the projector vertically, partially obscuring the image at the top and bottom, and exposing a sliver of bright white light on either side. all throughout the slideshow freddy would berate russell for not showing the picture correctly and kept asking him to adjust. he just couldn't seem to understand what the problem was.

my father was convinced at that time that he was going senile.

the only other thing i remember about the narration was one slide showing freddy in the water in a bathing suit. he said a crab bit his toe and how happy he was that the crab did not bite him higher up.

onacruse

HS:

Surely it is possible to be a 'self-taught' scholar?

In the sense of mere "accumulated information," no; otherwise we could call a computer filled with 100 GB of data a scholar. School, and scholarship, is a process, not a state. Thus, when you said

Unfortunately like many 'self-gifted' people he did not surround himself with the kind of critics neccessary to enable these gifts to be adjusted and monitored when needed.

my response wasn't a repetition of what you said; I spoke to the behavior of FF. We can be surrounded by 10,000 critics, but if we don't listen to those critics, then we're not in school. Nothing I've read of the history of the post-1913 WTS, or in WTS publications since FF started writing them, or in RF's comments about FF in COC, suggests to me even slightly that FF was open to anything but his own opinions and conclusions. Likewise myself: lot's of information, but my mind was like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and firmly set. I didn't even start to be "scholarly" until I came to this forum, and opened my mind to seriously and honestly consider what the "critics" say.

larc:

I did not address his ability as a scholar. I believe it was Hillary who brought up his being a scholar.

Actually, I was the first to use the term "scholar," indirectly, in my quotes. However, since the thread is about high IQ, I apologize if I misdirected the conversation.

Now, you are saying that someone can be a president of a major corporation/organization and not be intelligent? Prove it with research, not assertions. Give one specific example, a case study, where a growing organization was run by someone of low intelligence.

I don't have a case study, but I can offer at least one specific example. I had a personal relationship with the president of a $1B company here in the NW. He'd inherited it from his father, and hadn't participated materially in the company for over 20 years. He freely admitted that he knew virtually nothing about the nature of the business; even joked about it. Of course, he wasn't a "stupid" man, but his executive level had nothing to do with any expertise in the field.

__________

Thus, I stand by what I said: Fred Franz was no scholar.

Respects,

Craig

Rainmakerone

i'm sure hitler, stalin and pol pot were pretty smart too.........

IslandWoman

Fred Franz had the functional IQ of a retarded toad!

The man was a crock and ignoramous when it came to knowing God and loving his fellowman.

What a waste!

IW

AlanF

On this, IW, you and I completely agree!

AlanF

IslandWoman

Alan,

IW

jst2laws

Linda and Alan,

Fred Franz had the functional IQ of a retarded toad!

We are not discussing Integrity or Morality(some one's epiphany). Just whether or not he had some intellect. I have known several college professors who could not read a tape measure or reset a tripped circuit breaker in their home. Never the less they were so called scholars. Is that inability to function what you are refering to by "functional IQ of a retarded toad"?

Do not ask me how that can be. The scholarly types impress me in their specific fields but often seem to be morons in daily life. That is my impression of Freddie too. Theology and language were his studies but allowing him to make decisions about daily life for millions of people was a disaster.

Jst2laws

Fred Franz and high IQ

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