Fred Franz and high IQ

by petespal2002 47 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  IslandWoman

  Hi Jst2laws,

  Is that inability to function what you are refering to by "functional IQ of a retarded toad"?

  No, I meant the inability to be useful and worthwhile, to fulfill a function. We are not talking mathematician or scientist here, we are talking about someone who claimed to be a "teacher of Christ's teachings". In this he failed miserably, no question about it!

  He failed to perform the very function he claimed to fulfill, therefore he was "functionally retarded". He failed in his mission, his very reason for existence. He failed to love God and his brother, everything else is irrelevant.

  IW
• 

  hillary_step

  Onacruse,

  In the sense of mere "accumulated information," no; otherwise we could call a computer filled with 100 GB of data a scholar. School, and scholarship, is a process, not a state.

  Now, where did you manage to extract that thought from my post? Did I suggest that FF was a Scholar by ‘mere accumulated information’? As to you other assertion that scholarship is a ‘process’ not a ‘state’, that is nonsensical as the term is applied to both process *and* state. That is why you can call a thirteen year old in the process of learning a discipline a scholar, as well as his teacher.

  my response wasn't a repetition of what you said;

  But it was a repetition Onacruse:

  I wrote :

  Unfortunately like many 'self-gifted' people he did not surround himself with the kind of critics necessary to enable these gifts to be adjusted and monitored when needed.

  You wrote:

  I spoke to the behavior of FF. We can be surrounded by 10,000 critics, but if we don't listen to those critics, then we're not in school. Nothing I've read of the history of the post-1913 WTS, or in WTS publications since FF started writing them, or in RF's comments about FF in COC, suggests to me even slightly that FF was open to anything but his own opinions and conclusions.

  So did I. My point was that FF was a Scholar, but lacked the environment necessary to monitor his skills and challenge his work, hence his ability to produce, almost single-handedly a decent enough translation of the Bible, while at the same time *interpreting* the same work in ways that should have seem him strapped to a gurney. .What you say above is in essence exactly the same thing.

  Likewise myself: lot's of information, but my mind was like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and firmly set. I didn't even start to be "scholarly" until I came to this forum, and opened my mind to seriously and honestly consider what the "critics" say.

  I hate to disappoint you but from what you describe, you were not a Scholar, you were a receptacle for information. FF was not just a receptacle for information, he formulated, learned and processed information that enabled him to produce and achieve a translation of the Bible that while not perfect, was a scholarly enough achievement for a self-taught man. Like many self-taught scholars, he was quite brilliant in some ways and amazingly stupid in others, because of the very fact that the body of his work was never challenged, let alone monitored.

  Thus I stand by what I said: Fred Franz was no scholar.

  Lol…Onacruse, are you saying that all scholars are good scholars. Are there no such things as bad scholars?

  Best regards - HS
• 

  waiting

  This has been discussed here before:

  Franz was presented by the Watchtower as a Greek Scholar, etc. Notice they said he attended college, which is correct - I believe two years.

  They've also insinuated that he was a Rhode Scholar, which is incorrect. From what I've read, his grades in two years undergrad were sufficient so that he could have taken the exam for a Rhode Scholarship. Period - I've never seen evidence that he even took the exam.

  I believe Ray Franz wrote about his uncle and the Greek language (both styles) - speaking of FF's ability to use the language sufficiently. Which is a hell of a lot more than the vast majority of us can do.

  Psychology today tends to identify Different Types of Intelligence. Six? Some of them have little to do with being a member of Mensa.

  I suspect FF was highly intelligent in his own way......quirky, weirdly, somewhat irrevelent to the Real World. His ability to control people, control situations, speaking ability, authorship (accurate & inaccurate), ability to manuver through the business of the WTBTS, are all different types of intelligence.

  His intelligence has nothing to do with his religious views of humanity, or even what he did with his intelligence.

  Ol' Fred Franz was a Strange Man. Remarkably good looking (from pictures I've seen) when younger.

  waiting

  Hey Hilliary! I tend to agree with 99.9% of your posts. I betcha even your wife wouldn't say that.
• 

  Undecided

  When I was younger, in the 50s, there was the story going around that he had a photographic memory and could remember all the WTs and could give you the page and paragraph of any quote you could bring up. Just another strange tale of the leaders of the Borg, I'm sure.

  Ken P.
• 

  onacruse

  HS, I fear that in expressing my own opinions I have inadvertently come off as "putting words in your mouth." I respect you and larc too much to even attempt to do that, nor would it be in my nature to maltreat anyone in that way.

  I hate to disappoint you but from what you describe, you were not a Scholar, you were a receptacle for information.

  No disappointment at all; I openly stated the same.

  The following quote reflects my sentiments:

  By the worldly standards of public life, all scholars in their work are of course oddly virtuous. They do not make wild claims, they do not cheat, they do not try to persuade at any cost, they appeal neither to prejudice nor to authority, they are often frank about their ignorance, their disputes are fairly decorous, they do not confuse what is being argued with race, politics, sex or age, they listen patiently to the young and to the old who both know everything. These are the general virtues of scholarship...
  Jacob Bronowski

  Perhaps, some day, you and I will get a chance to take a walk through the woods together, and share a flask? I would enjoy that. [email protected]

  Craig
• 

  larc

  Craig,
  
  What you wrote was very nice indeed. Thank you for including me with Hillary.
• 

  hillary_step

  Onacruse,

  By the worldly standards of public life, all scholars in their work are of course oddly virtuous. They do not make wild claims, they do not cheat, they do not try to persuade at any cost, they appeal neither to prejudice nor to authority, they are often frank about their ignorance, their disputes are fairly decorous, they do not confuse what is being argued with race, politics, sex or age, they listen patiently to the young and to the old who both know everything. These are the general virtues of scholarship...

  You must have heard the song, 'The Impossible Dream'....lol

  Perhaps, some day, you and I will get a chance to take a walk through the woods together, and share a flask? I would enjoy that.

  I would certainly look forward to that, perhaps we could rub two scholars together and create a blaze...lol

  Best regards - HS
• 

  Farkel

  hs,

  : I do know that thw WTS did boast that he was often approached by Bible Scholars not of the fold to gain his insight into passages of Greek that they were translating, but I cannot remember where I read this.

  That would be in the place known as the "Twilight Zone."

  Farkel
• 

  blacksheep

  I remember hearing my mom, a die-hard JW, claim that he was the "most smartest man in the world",lol, or something very similar. We've had several threads here in the past, and there are many web sites as well which call into question his credentials, both in the Greek language, and elsewere.

  I don't recall ever seeing his IQ published. Probably from a JW perspective, he WAS highly accomplished. But that's not saying much. Like with most JW's, I think he's been oversold, put on a pedastal, and is basically a charletan. Compared to TRUE intellectuals in the world, he's no dobut a mental midgit.
• 

  Faraon

  When I was younger, in the 50s, there was the story going around that he had a photographic memory and could remember all the WTs and could give you the page and paragraph of any quote you could bring up.

  Too bad his camera had no film.

  At the risk of being repetitive, memory is by no means a sign of intelligence. A good example is given in the film "Rain Man", which deals with an Idiot Savant.

  I don't recall ever seeing his IQ published. Probably from a JW perspective, he WAS highly accomplished. But that's not saying much.

  That brought to mind a Spanish saying "En la tierra del ciego, el tuerto es rey" which translates as "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed is king"