Jesus was gay - says academic

by ISP 172 Replies latest watchtower bible

ISP

Thanks peacefulpete, I appreciated your support on this matter!
ISP
Kenneson

Isp,
You argue that the silence from writers pertaining to Jesus is deafening. Yet you do not accept the writings of the New Testament nor the early Christian writers because you claim they are biased. (Of course, modern skeptical writers aren't!) If other writings would be found to have been written by his followers, why would you believe those over the others? And since any non-Christian writings are said to contain interpolations, what evidence would satisfy you?
That there was writing during the time of Jesus, I don't doubt. We have evidence from the Essenes at Qumran (more of their writings have survived than the scanty Roman sources of that time period!). Since you don't accept New Testament and other Christian writings, that leaves only non-Christian ones. And they certainly are not numerous. And why should those who wrote have considered Jesus historically important enough to write about? He never addressed the Roman Senate; didn't write philosophical treatises; lived an offensive lifestyle by associating with prostitutes, sinners; most of his closest followers were mere fishermen and he was executed as a criminal.
It is generally agreed that Paul's writings precede the Gospels. So, if your assessment is correct that Paul only knew and wrote about a spiritual Christ, why could not Christians say they need not look for a historical Jesus, but that they are returning to their pure roots, the "spiritual Jesus?" Then, what is the next step? Is there a historical Paul?
peacefulpete

I know you are addressing ISP but it may interest you to know the the Jesus seminar group is presently working upon a Paul project. And yes some are questioning whether any of the "letters" are in fact from somene named Paul or rather a Pauline school of pre-Marcion christologists overlain with Catholic polemics. Your frustration is aimed at us for requiring the same weight of evidence that you would likely demand of your local building contractor. Recent references. That you require only hearsay and 100 year old rumours and disregard the contradictions and suspicious origins of these rumours is equally frustrating to me. But I can live with it. Lets agree to disagree.
Faraon

Yeah, right!
Irenaeus, who was an "early father" of the 2nd century, tells us that Jesus indeed lived, but he lived to and old age!
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-59.htm - P6719_1628705
3. But it is greatly to be wondered at, how it has come to pass that, while affirming that they have found out the mysteries of God, they have not examined the Gospels to ascertain how often after His baptism the Lord went up, at the time of the passover, to Jerusalem, in accordance with what was the practice of the Jews from every land, and every year, that they should assemble at this period in Jerusalem, and there celebrate the feast of the passover. First of all, after He had made the water wine at Cana of Galilee, He went up to the festival day of the passover, on which occasion it is written, "For many believed in Him, when they saw the signs which He did,"140 as John the disciple of the Lord records. Then, again, withdrawing Himself [from Judaea], He is found in Samaria; on which occasion, too, He convened with the Samaritan woman, and while at a distance, cured the son of the centurion by a word, saying, "Go thy way, thy son liveth."141 Afterwards He went up, the second time, to observe the festival day of the passover142 in Jerusalem; on which occasion He cured the paralytic man, who had lain beside the pool thirty-eight years, bidding him rise, take up his couch, and depart. Again, withdrawing from thence to the other side of the sea of Tiberias,143 He there seeing a great crowd had followed Him, fed all that multitude with five loaves of bread, and twelve baskets of fragments remained over and above. Then, when He had raised Lazarus from the dead, and plots were formed against Him by the Pharisees, He withdrew to a city called Ephraim; and from that place, as it is written "He came to Bethany six days before the passover,"144 and going up from Bethany to Jerusalem, He there ate the passover, and suffered on the day following. Now, that these three occasions of the passover are not included within one year, every person whatever must acknowledge. And that the special month in which the passover was celebrated, and in which also the Lord suffered, was not the twelfth, but the first, those men who boast that they know all things, if they know not this, may learn it from Moses. Their explanation, therefore, both of the year and of the twelfth month has been proved false, and they ought to reject either their explanation or the Gospel; otherwise [this unanswerable question forces itself upon them], How is it possible that the Lord preached for one year only?
4. Being thirty years old when He came to be baptized, and then possessing the full age of a Master,145 He came to Jerusalem, so that He might be properly acknowledged146 by all as a Master. For He did not seem one thing while He was another, as those affirm who describe Him as being man only in appearance; but what He was, that He also appeared to be. Being a Master, therefore, He also possessed the age of a Master, not despising or evading any condition of humanity, nor setting aside in Himself that law which He had147 appointed for the human race, but sanctifying every age, by that period corresponding to it which belonged to Himself. For He came to save all through means of Himself-all, I say, who through Him are born again to God148 -infants,149 and children, and boys, and youths, and old men. He therefore passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, thus sanctifying infants; a child for children, thus sanctifying those who are of this age, being at the same time made to them an example of piety, righteousness, and submission; a youth for youths, becoming an example to youths, and thus sanctifying them for the Lord. So likewise He was an old man for old men, that He might be a perfect Master for all, not merely as respects the setting forth of the truth, but also as regards age, sanctifying at the same time the aged also, and becoming an example to them likewise. Then, at last, He came on to death itself, that He might be "the first-born from the dead, that in all things He might have the pre-eminence,"150 the Prince of life,151 existing before all, and going before all.152
5. They, however, that they may establish their false opinion regarding that which is written, "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," maintain that He preached for one year only, and then suffered in the twelfth month. [In speaking thus], they are forgetful to their own disadvantage, destroying His whole work, and robbing Him of that age which is both more necessary and more honourable than any other; that more advanced age, I mean, during which also as a teacher He excelled all others. For how could He have had disciples, if He did not teach? And how could He have taught, unless He had reached the age of a Master? For when He came to be baptized, He had not yet completed His thirtieth year, but was beginning to be about thirty years of age (for thus Luke, who has mentioned His years, has expressed it: "Now Jesus was, as it were, beginning to be thirty years old,"153 when He came to receive baptism); and, [according to these men, ] He preached only one year reckoning from His baptism. On completing His thirtieth year He suffered, being in fact still a young man, and who had by no means attained to advanced age. Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years,154 and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord, [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information.155 And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan.156 Some of them, moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. Whom then should we rather believe? Whether such men as these, or Ptolemaeus, who never saw the apostles, and who never even in his dreams attained to the slightest trace of an apostle?
hooberus

The following is some early evidence for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ under Pontius Pilate. The last reference shows that his death is consistent with Roman crucifixion. I have posted most of this before (I have added some more since then). Jesus and Pilate Paul believed that Jesus was a historical person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person. Acts chapter 13 (Paul's sermon recorded by Church historian Luke). 28: And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
29: And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
30: But God raised him from the dead:
31: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 1 Timothy chapter 6 13: I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; Peter belived that Jesus Christ was a historical person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person. Acts Chapter 3 (Peter's sermon recorded by Church historian Luke.) 13: The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14: But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15: And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. Acts Chapter 4 (Pterer's sermon recorded by Church historian Luke.) 27: For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28: For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. Mark (who is said received his gospel from Peter) believed that Jesus Christ was a historical person crucifed under Pilate a historical person. Mark Chapter 15 1: And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
2: And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
3: And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
4: And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.
5: But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.
6: Now at that feast he released unto them one prisoner, whomsoever they desired.
7: And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection.
8: And the multitude crying aloud began to desire him to do as he had ever done unto them.
9: But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
10: For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
11: But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
12: And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?
13: And they cried out again, Crucify him.
14: Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.
15: And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.
16: And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band.
17: And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,
18: And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!
19: And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
20: And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him.
21: And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.
22: And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.
23: And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.
24: And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
25: And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
27: And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
28: And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
29: And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
30: Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
31: Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.
32: Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
33: And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
34: And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35: And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
36: And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
37: And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38: And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39: And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
40: There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
41: (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
42: And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43: Joseph of Arimathaea, and honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
44: And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
45: And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
46: And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
47: And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid. John believed that Jesus Christ was a historical person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person. John Chapter 19 1: Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
2: And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
3: And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
4: Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.
5: Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
6: When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7: The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
8: When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
9: And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
10: Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
12: And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
13: When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14: And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15: But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priest answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16: Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17: And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18: Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20: This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21: Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22: Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23: Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24: They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
25: Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26: When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27: Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28: After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29: Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30: When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31: The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32: Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33: But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35: And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36: For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37: And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
38: And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
39: And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40: Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
41: Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
42: There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand. The church historian Luke believed that Jesus Christ was a historical person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person.
Luke Chapter 3 1: Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
Luke Chapeter 23 23: And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
24: And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required. Luke chapter 23
Jewish historian Josephus recorded that Jesus Christ was a historical person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person (some dispute this reference, though the below part is commonly accepted).
"and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him;"
Roman Historian Tacitus (Ad 115 Annals 15.44. ) believed that Jesus Christ was a historical Person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person.
"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."

Justin Martyr (147 A.D.) appealed to a document apparenty extant in his day called the "Acts of Pontius Pilate" as a historical reference for the fact of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Pontius Pilate.
The First Apology of Justin
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-46.htm#P3593_620967
Chapter XXXV.-Other Fulfilled Prophecies.
And the expression, "They pierced my hands and my feet," was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were fixed in His hands and feet. And after He was crucified they cast lots upon His vesture, and they that crucified Him parted it among them. And that these things did happen, you can ascertain from the Acts of Pontius Pilate. 71
71 aktwn . These Acts of Pontius Pilate, or regular accounts of his procedure sent by Pilate to the Emporer Tiberius, are supposed to have been destroyed at an early period, possibly in consequence of the unanswerable appeals which the Christians constantly made to them. There exists a forgery in imitation of these Acts. See Trollope. The above witnesses are all early (most first century) or refer to early documents. The witnesses are numerous and come from multiple sources. These witnesses are consistent with each other as well as the Roman manner of crucifixion. The historical evidence is that Jesus Christ was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
Further evidence for the historicity of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ by the Romans is the fact that his crucifixion almost exactly followed the Roman manner of crucifixion
Encyclopedia Brittanica Micropaedia Vol. 3 p.762
"There were various methods of performing the execution. Usually, the condemned man, after being whipped, or "scourged," dragged the crossbeam of his cross to the place of punishment, where the upright shaft was already fixed in the ground. Stripped of his clothing either then or earlier at his scourging, he was bound fast with outstrectched arms to the crossbeam or nailed firmly to it through the wrists. The crossbeam was then raised high against the upright shaft and made fast to it about 9 to 12 feet (approximately 3 metres) from the ground. Next, the feet were tightly bound or nailed to the upright shaft. A ledge inserted about halfway up the upright shaft gave some support to the body; evidence for a similar ledge for the feet is rare and late. Over the criminal's head was placed a notice stating his name and his crime. Death, apparently caused bu exhaustion or by heart failure, could be hastened by shattering the legs (crurifragium) with an iron club, so that shock and asphyxiation soon nded his life."
The same arcticle later says:
"in about AD 32 Pontius Pilate had Jesus of Nazareth put to death by crucifixion."
hooberus

Irenaeus, who was an "early father" of the 2nd century, tells us that Jesus indeed lived, but he lived to and old age!

Irenaeus, wrote around the year 180 A.D. He agreed that Jesus was real person who was crucified. He may however also have taught that Jesus lived to a much older age than the earler more direct witinesses taught. His testimony in no way overturns the earlier witnesses.
hooberus
Earlier I quoted Lowder of the secular web for the historicity of Jesus Christ here is the quote: "I think there is ample evidence to conclude there was a historical Jesus. To my mind, the New Testament alone provides sufficient evidence for the historicity of Jesus, but the writings of Josephus also provide two independent, authentic references to Jesus."
peaceful pete responded: "hooberus..or should I say hubris, did you even read the Lowder article you linked? It well discusses the error of apologists claims of independent witnesses to a historical Jesus. His conclusion at the end is admittedly based upon his "mind" on the matter not a dogmatic expression of fact. Nor could his statements in context be taken to imply acceptance of the Gospels as history nor Josephus's words as authentic as extant. He has formed a model that allows for a historical Jesus (as Price does btw) yet admits the evidence is paultry and tentative. It disgusts me that this site of yours uses the same methods as the WT does and pull and stretch statements out of context and present them as unguarded moments of frankness.
My quote did not come from the tektonics site, but directly from the infidels site (to which I linked).
I never said that Lowder accepted everything in the gospels as history. I simply quoted him "To my mind the New Testament alone provides sufficint evidence for the historicity of Jesus" this was completely in context. Below is everything he wrote under the "The New Testament" section of his paper:
"McDowell quotes John Montgomery, who states the New Testament documents are reliable and therefore provide good evidence for the historicity of Jesus. Although I disagree with McDowell (and Montgomery) over the degree of reliability of the New Testament, that disagreement is irrelevant here. There is simply nothing intrinsically improbable about a historical Jesus; the New Testament alone (or at least portions of it) are reliable enough to provide evidence of a historical Jesus.[3] On this point, it is important to note that even G.A. Wells, who until recently was the champion of the Christ-myth hypothesis, now accepts the historicity of Jesus on the basis of 'Q.'[4] "
As to your claim "He has formed a model that allows for a historical Jesus (as Price does btw) yet admits the evidence is paultry and tentative" Lowder said that the evidence for the historical Jesus was "ample"
"I think there is ample evidence to conclude there was a historical Jesus. To my mind, the New Testament alone provides sufficient evidence for the historicity of Jesus, but the writings of Josephus also provide two independent, authentic references to Jesus."
peacefulpete

Hooby..are you saying that you found that sentence by Lowder by reading the infidels site and extracted the line by yourself? Or did you not find it at the Tektoniks site and post it believing it was consistant with the context in which the line was found. By the way you have p[osted the same material on more than one topic thread, is this not against the rules?
hooberus

Hooby..are you saying that you found that sentence by Lowder by reading the infidels site and extracted the line by yourself? Or did you not find it at the Tektoniks site and post it believing it was consistant with the context in which the line was found.
I found the sentence myself directly from the infidels site. I was referred to the arcticle in question by gumby on another thread.
By the way you have p[osted the same material on more than one topic thread, is this not against the rules?
You must be referring to rule #5. "Spamming Please don't add the same comment to more than one forum." I don't consider my posts to be spamming. When I do post previous material usually I will modify it to fit the thread. For example my "Pilate" post on the cross thread is different than my "Pilate" post here (though mostly similar since it fits the "cross" topic).
peacefulpete

Then I guess I stand corrected, it was not the tektoniks site it was you who pulled the statement out of context to make the author appear to support your arguement.

Jesus was gay - says academic

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