Please read what someone posted on Suicide, and tell me what you think

by LyinEyes 27 Replies latest jw experiences

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  LyinEyes

  Proplog2.. wrote this on another thread, and I would like to hear from others who may not have had a suicide in their own families to reply as well. Do you think that the JW religion has at least SOME blame or bloodguilt over some of the JW suicides? I personally know they do, not all cases I am sure, but I know a LARGE amount of them are cult related JW.......... Remember we are not talking about just another religion, but a mind controlled CULT known as JW's.

  Here is his comment:

  Once again this forum chooses the low road of ignorance. Such garbage.

  What do you know about suicide statistics? Do you actually know that the suicide rate among JW's is higher than the general population. You can't prove that because there would be no reliable source for such information. Why do Finnish people have such a high suicide rate? Why is it higher for men than women? Why is it the greatest cause of death of young people next to automobile accidents?

  Blaming suicide on religion or family or government or schools etc. is very irresponsible. Quite often families of suicide victims blame themselves.

  Quit the blame game. It accomplished nothing. What about the cases where people were going to commit suicide but didn't because of being a JW.

  People on this forum have developed a philosophy that it doesn't matter what you say as long as you can spin it to put JW's in the worst possilbe light. That is bigotry of the worst sort.

  No one who is lurking can take discussions like this seriously.

  So what do you think,,,,,,,,does the JW's Cult, in many cases,,,,,,,maybe not all, contribute to a person committing suicide?
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  LyinEyes

  bttt
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  cruzanheart

  Dede, this is what I posted on that thread:

  No one who is lurking can take discussions like this seriously.

  Sorry, proplog, but I don't write my posts for lurkers. I don't give a damn what anyone thinks of what I write as long as I'm not being hurtful to others. So many of us on this forum, as evidenced by this thread, have experienced suicide up close and personal, and we have a lot of feelings about it. Suicide is a personal decision, but a person can most definitely be influenced by what others are saying about them, and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, or the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, as they now style themselves, has always been excellent at making a person aware of their faults and they are even better about making a person feel really really bad about what they're doing or not doing. If a person has low self-esteem to start with, that kind of "support" system can definitely send them into a suicidal spiral. And, of course, you're taught that if you leave the organization for whatever reason, Jehovah hates you and you're dead meat, so that will make a depressed one feel even more hopeless.

  Nina
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  Jessica Rabbit

  I am trying to figure out why proplog2 even reads these posts. Obviously he/she doesn't; and never will take the JW beliefs seriously in his/her life. If I had taken everything with a grain of salt growing up and never thought any of it was real, I would post such numb, cold and negative remarks as he/she has. All our lives we were told it isn't just a religion, it is a way of life. Now I, along with most of you are deprogramming most of everything we were ever told to think and feel. And yes, when you are told all your life that every decision you make will either mean eternal life in paradise or death at armageddon, it does give one a sense of hopelessness when they feel they have been kicked out of thier only means to a happy future. Some have gotten into situations, including myself, where prayer and a relationship with God were an impossible dream. When you no longer feel you have God on your side, not to mention the only friends you ever had, death seems to be the only way out of the pain and loneliness.

  Traci
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  gumby

  Take 20 cases of suicide each.

  Take the first 20 of witness suicides.Then.......take 20 cases from a non-religious person.

  Next........find out what would have caused this action.

  Then see if in the witness cases........that many could not be related to guilt imposed reasons....or fear related reasons......or an emotional breakdown........all related to witness teachings.

  Then........take the other 20 of the non-religious group. What would you find? Random reasons, thats what.

  So whats the point? That I think you would in all honesty, find that those who commit suicide among the dubs.........are for RELIGIOUS imposed reasons......while the other groups have VARIOUS reasons.

  The point is.......were it not for being raised a dub.........how many would have carried this act out?

  Gumby
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  Big Tex

  Well I don't have 55 years of association with Jehovah's Witnesses but even if only (only?) 4 people killed themselves as a result of the organization then that is 4 too many.

  Part of healing is knowing where to put responsibility. Perhaps I am just a bleeding heart, save the whales, gay rights, PETA liberal, I could not look myself in the mirror if I were as cold hearted as the statements above. People are far more important than simple statistics.

  An organization with the track record such as Jehovah's Witnesses have shown themselves to be, needs to begin taking responsibility for their actions.
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  Lady Lee

  What do you know about suicide statistics? Do you actually know that the suicide rate among JW's is higher than the general population. You can't prove that because there would be no reliable source for such information. Why do Finnish people have such a high suicide rate? Why is it higher for men than women? Why is it the greatest cause of death of young people next to automobile accidents?

  What relevance do statistics of other populations or other countries have to do with the issue of suicide among the JWs? We are here to discuss the issue that there have been many JWs who have committed suicide because of the treatemtn by this religion.

  My experience is 1 family member, 1 close friend and 1 young man I know of committed suide during the 22 years I was a JW

  Since I left 18 years ago I do not know of 1 person who committed suicide and that is something considering that I have worked with high risk populations for the last 18 of those years.

  Blaming suicide on religion or family or government or schools etc. is very irresponsible. Quite often families of suicide victims blame themselves.

  The fact that family and close friends blame themselves is irrelevant on what the cause was. Survivor guilt is a normal response when a loved one dies this way. It does not address real guilt or responsiblity

  Quit the blame game. It accomplished nothing. What about the cases where people were going to commit suicide but didn't because of being a JW.

  Thw WTS has its own PR department. And they would never tell the whole story. They would only tell stories of people who got a last minute call at their door that stopped them. They certainly would not be publishing stories or Brother X who committed suicide because we disfellowshipped him. We present the reality that JW suicide does happen and always in the most tragic of circumstances.

  People on this forum have developed a philosophy that it doesn't matter what you say as long as you can spin it to put JW's in the worst possilbe light. That is bigotry of the worst sort.

  Please NOTE where you are. This is a forum that allows us to express our experiences and grievances with the WTS something that was not permitted while we were JWs. It isn't a matter of painting the WTS black. it is a matter of speaking our truth our experience and sharing that with others and maybe getting a bit of support unlike when we were JWs.

  It isn't bigotry. It is honesty

  No one who is lurking can take discussions like this seriously.

  Unless of course they have been there and experienced similar situations.

  Lee
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  coffee_black

  OK, Proplog2, you say you know of 4 JW suicides personally. How many non-JW suicides do you know of personally? I don't think that you can generalize the subject just based on your own experience. It's a big problem in the JW world, and one that they try to hush up, so the fact that you know about 4 personally probably means that there are many more in your area that you don't know about. There have been articles written about JWs and mental illness. So many JWs today are on anti-depressants. The stories written here about suicide among JWs are numerous. In my opinion, if all the stories were compiled, it would speak volumes on the real nature of the organization.

  Coffee
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  shamus

  I will add my two cents here...

  I went to the JDUDS b/c of depression.... it did become worse in the duds. I almost went through with it on more than one occasion. Had I stayed, I would have been dead, eventually. My mind could not take the constant guilt, and I had to go. I strongly believe that the religion CONTRIBUTED to my disease, and self-destructive thinking. The guilt alone was horrendous. Whenever something was wrong in the congregation, I would be "weak" for thinking badly about it. Screw that.

  Thank god I'm free.
• 

  LyinEyes

  Here is my reply to what Proplog said on another thread:

  Proplog............. I am taking these words you have used as a personal insult:

  Low road of ignorance, garbage, irresponsible, bigotry.........( ugly man , that is very ugly)

  First of all , I don't blame all of my mother's problems on the fact that she was a JW. I have said that many times in past post. But .............I WITNESSED with my own eyes and ears, her heart broken, over having hurt her God, Jehovah, and not one brother, the elders,,,,,,,,took a damn minute of their time to help this sister who was sick.......... SHE was physcially sick. They didnt call her in the hospital, they didnt send a card. Why didn't they give her spiritual comfort? THey waited until she started smoking then decided to do something about her then,,,,,,,,,,d/f her. Ok, I can see , she decided to smoke, but she was full of guilt over it and a whole plate of other things , having to do with my ELDER dad for so many years. So I CAN say that the religion the way of life the utter bullshit and hypocrisey in the religion, DID contribute to her misery. That how it was in our home, and I have seen the same thing in SO MANY other JW households,........... but since you were not there, living my life , seeing what I saw,,,,,,,,,, you are talking OUT OF YOUR DAMN ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  You are being ignorant , blind, and totally insensitive to the ones who lived the real shit of this kind of thing.

  And another thing, I don't need statistics of any kind to prove to me a thing.........I saw it all with my own eyes. I dont care what someone eles might say , YOU mostly, I just share MY story, MY experience with this, and if you don't believe it , I don't give a SHIT!

  Have you ever tried to comfort a person so broken down in spirit, wondering if they have committed an unforgivable sin and that Jehovah has turned his back on them? Have you whiped the tears away from your own Mother's face , trying in vain to comfort her, when she needed an absolution? Forgiveness? Understanding? I am mad at the religion part of it, because they (JW) told her she shouldnt put much stock in going to therapy.............hummmmm, I guess that is not the JW fault is it,,,,,their wonderful suggestion on relying on God and the brothers , left her up shitcreek without a paddle because,,,,, they ignored her cries for help. And well you know God didnt come down and comfort her either. She wasnt capable of comforting herself,.... and I tried, I blamed myself for so long you can't even imagine the "what if's " that went thru my mind?

  So until you walk this walk,,,,, which i hope to God you never do,,,,,,,,,, it would be wise of you to refrain from thinking you know it all with all of your data and statistics.