The word of God makes it clear to us that abortion is not a sin.

by Abaddon 60 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Yizuman

  If God wants more babies on the planet then He should pay to feed them.

  CZAR

  1 Corinthians 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

  If God gave us food, it wouldn't neccessarly bring us to God, but many would become selfishly dependant on God for food rather than having a relationship with God.
  

  Genesis 1 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
  29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

  God gave us plenty to eat, yet in some countries, man selfishly withhold food for himself while others starve to death because man refuses to share.

  Malachi 3:10
  Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

  Many churches do this and many others do not. In some countries, when we deliver food to the poor, some governments steal a large portion of the food as well as medicine and leave very little for them to deliver the rest to the people in need.

  Yiz
• 

  Yizuman

  So Yiz, you believe in complete predestination? That's basically what that verse is saying.

  Romans 8:29
  For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

  Romans 8:30
  And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

  Ephesians 1:5
  he[ 1:5 Or sight in love. 5 He] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will–

  Ephesians 1:11
  In him we were also chosen,[ 1:11 Or were made heirs] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,

  God knows already in our hearts through our free will which one will accept God and which ones will reject Him long before creation began.

  Yiz
• 

  Satanus

  If God gave us food, it wouldn't neccessarly bring us to God, but many would become selfishly dependant on God for food rather than having a relationship with God.

  This makes as much sense as it would if you put the word parents in there.

  If our parents gave us food, it wouldn't neccessarly bring us to our parents, but many would become selfishly dependant on their parents for food rather than having a relationship with them.

  SS
• 

  funkyderek

  God knows already in our hearts through our free will which one will accept God and which ones will reject Him long before creation began.

  Then why doesn't he just cut through the BS and give us our reward or punishment now?

  You can't just say "free will" and make it so. Predestination is incompatible with free will. If I have no way to alter my destiny, then I do not have free will in any meaningful sense.
• 

  Yizuman

  Then why doesn't he just cut through the BS and give us our reward or punishment now?

  He will in his own due time. God prefers to be merciful now at this moment rather than give in to wrath to those that rejects him. Because he wants the Gospel of Christ be given TIME to reach out to every listener, even if it meant it could take 2000 years or more to do it.

  God will give rewards to those that have accepted the finished work of Christ on the Cross...

  The bible makes it clear that if we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior, we will escape the Law and the Wrath of God...

  John 3:36
  Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."[ 3:36 Some interpreters end the quotation after verse 30.]

  Romans 1:18
  The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

  Romans 2:5
  But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

  Romans 2:8
  But for those who are self­seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

  Romans 3:5
  But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)

  Romans 3:25
  God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[ 3:25 Or as the one who would turn aside his wrath, taking away sin] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished–

  Romans 5:9
  Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

  1 Thessalonians 1:10
  and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead–Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

  1 Thessalonians 5:9
  For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

  Hebrews 2:17
  For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[ 2:17 Or and that he might turn aside God's wrath, taking away] the sins of the people.

  1 John 2:2
  He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[ 2:2 Or He is the one who turns aside God's wrath, taking away our sins, and not only ours but also] the sins of the whole world.

  1 John 4:10
  This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[ 4:10 Or as the one who would turn aside his wrath, taking away] our sins.

  Anyone that accepts Christ as Lord and Savior is no longer bound by the Law of God given to Moses, but by the Law of Mercy and Grace. Anyone who rejects Christ is still bound by the Law of God and there will be no mercy for them on Judgement Day.

  You can't just say "free will" and make it so. Predestination is incompatible with free will. If I have no way to alter my destiny, then I do not have free will in any meaningful sense.

  What you don't understand in regards to predestination is that God, for example, God foresaw a particular man accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior long before creation began. So he already predestined him to be His son already because of the choice he made.

  Ephesians 1:5
  he[ 1:5 Or sight in love. 5 He] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will–

  This is the very key thing here, He predestined us to be ADOPTED as His sons through Jesus Christ and the only way that could happen is that if we accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, (by choice!) there can be no other way around that.

  He knows which one will react by our hearts and thoughts that will be more acceptable to the gospel of Christ and which one will say, "BAH! BALONEY! I got better things to do with my time."

  I know you don't understand it, but I am trying to help by explaining it, even to the limit of my vocabulary.

  Yiz
• 

  drwtsn32

  God knows already in our hearts through our free will which one will accept God and which ones will reject Him long before creation began.

  Um, it wouldn't be true free will if god already knew exactly what we are going to do. If god already knew exactly what we were going to do, there isn't a damn thing we could do to change it.

  I'm so glad I don't have to defend lame scriptures any more...
• 

  peacefulpete

  Your right I was not aware that the morning after pill worked by preventing implantation. I guess I didn't think about how it worked, I just imagined it was nearly instantaneous. This takes place a couple days later (if not spontaneously aborted). So my arguement is flawed.
• 

  Abaddon

  Mr. Kim:

  The above statement as written, is FALSE.

  1. As people grow in knowledge, a great responsibility is also part of the "package."

  2. Many times people will use interpretations of words, medical terminology, political motives, greed, selfishness, pride, etc., as an excuse to obtain some type of (preconceived) personal benefit which would "take care of embarrassing" problems and results from unfortunate acts and behavior.

  I wonder what the personal definition of Murder, Killing, Death, Pride and "life," are to people who think abortion is "OK" and nothing is wrong with it, is?

  Sorry Mr. Kim, I really don't think you read a damn bit of the preceeding posts.

  Point 1/ is an implicit ad hom; it suggests that 'cause I disagree with you, I lack knowledge and responsibility.

  Point 2/ is the same.

  Point 3/ is a red herring; we are talking about the Biblical stance on abortion, what has my personal stance on "Murder, Killing, Death, Pride and "life," got to do with the Bible's stance.?

  You have totally failed to address the issue being discussed, namely whether the Bible condemns abortion, and are just expressing your personal opinion without any Biblical backing. Fine, you can do that, but it's off topic.

  Fortunately, unlike you, I don't seek to undermine your credibility using logical fallacies (instead of addressing the issues), as you seem to be doing quite a good job undermining your own credibility by not addressing the issues and making veiled personal attacks on my morality.

  Anyway, you seem to miss the emtire point; interpretations of a textual work are finate not definate.

  Spanner: it is I!

  Yizuman;

  Are you a Calvanist?

  Could you please comment on the scriptures that actually contain laws that could be interpreted as legislating against abortion. What do you feel about the meaning of yasa?

  Could you please comment on why the only such Mosaic law pertains to injury of a pregnant woman by fighting men. If an unborn's life is important to god in the way a born life is important to god, why there is no specific Mosaic law prohibiting women trying to abort a pregnancy, even though abortion was practised by women in antiquity?

  How do you feel about accusations of pharisitical elboration and extention of law by taking scriptures that do not refer to abortion and using them to prove what seems to be a personal opinion some people have over one scripture?

  How do you respoind to the point I made that a soul is, in Hebrew, nepesh, which specifically means one that breathes. This would contradict any argument that the soul is present at the moment of conception. If unborns have no souls (please provide scriptual evidence they have souls if you disagree), then how can they be rquivalent to born humans with souls?

  drwtsn32 & peacefulpete;

  About half of conceived eggs don't make it to implantation anyway. Logically speaking, if those unborns are as important as borns, then why the massive genocide built into human phisiology? If the conceived eggs that don't implant are equal to born humans, where do their souls go when they are reaborbed by the body or lost in a menstural flow? Of course, these metaphysical coiniderations are really secondary; if the body wastes 50% of fertilised eggs naturally, then it's fairly clear that fertilised eggs are nothing in the scheme of things and preventing their implantation is not a moral issue.
• 

  drwtsn32

  About half of conceived eggs don't make it to implantation anyway. Logically speaking, if those unborns are as important as borns, then why the massive genocide built into human phisiology? If the conceived eggs that don't implant are equal to born humans, where do their souls go when they are reaborbed by the body or lost in a menstural flow? Of course, these metaphysical coiniderations are really secondary; if the body wastes 50% of fertilised eggs naturally, then it's fairly clear that fertilised eggs are nothing in the scheme of things and preventing their implantation is not a moral issue.

  Wow... 50%? I knew it was an appreciable percentage, but I didn't realize it was so high. What source did you use for that figure? Also, I agree with your reasoning that preventing implantation is not immoral.
• 

  peacefulpete

  I as well agree about the preventing of implantation not constituting a moral isse. I thought I would simply muddy the crystal clear water for those who feel that a new person was formed at the moment of conception. Your reasoning about the implications for a god that would design a system that enaged in genocide was good reasoning for those who frame their opinions upon a perceived mind of god.