On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post (page 18)

cofty

Why shouldn't we be respecting everyone's belief?

If it's false it doesn't deserve respect. If it's true it doesn't require it.

I must say I agree with Viviane we shouldn't be respecting all beliefs. I outlined my reasons for this in my previous post. But with regards to a person believing in God, or the Trinity, I feel these things which can't be proven and are subject to faith should be respected, or we can realise we are only not respecting a part of that persons beliefs.

Anyway the way I look at it is we live in a room with the lights on and the curtains drawn, but occasionally we are allowed to switch on the light and open the curtains. These are the times where we develop in our thinking and moral compass. And I like to think when I come to this forum, this is a time when I switch the light off and open the curtains.

The Rebel.

Viviane

LUHE, it's not "my take". It's factually true and I can back up every bit of it with incontext quotes and evidence. I can ALWAYS backup what I post.

With regard to respecting belief, it's an idea someone holds. Someone liking chocolate over vanilla is not something that dserves or has anything to do with respect, IMO. NAMBLA, antivaxxers and people that use religion to deny medical care to children are hurting others because of their wacky beliefs. Far from being deserving of respect, they deserve derision and ridicule. They not only add nothing, they actively hurt people.

Why should I respect the uninformed belief of someone to lazy to research on a topic? Why should I respect the belief of a misogynist that women are second class? Or a racist that believes in white supremacy?

Those beliefs hurt people and make the entire world worse. They aren't deserving of anything except the dustbin of history.

cofty

I feel these things can't be proven and are subject to faith

Proof and faith are exact opposites. Faith is not a virtue

Viviane

But with regards to a person believing in God, or the Trinity, I feel these things can't be proven and are subject to faith.

I have no problem with someone believing in those things. If they want to talk to me about it, then they have to expect a diiscussion instead of preaching. If they want to use them to affect public policy for everything then they damn well better show proof or expect the consequences of making evidence free assertions.

LoveUniHateExams

Good post, Viv.

NAMBLA, antivaxxers and people that use religion to deny medical care to children are hurting others because of their wacky beliefs - agreed.

Far from being deserving of respect, they deserve derision and ridicule - agreed.

Why should I respect the belief of a misogynist that women are second class? - agreed.

Or a racist that believes in white supremacy? - agreed.

They aren't deserving of anything except the dustbin of history - agreed.

*** ***

At the very moment I'm typing this post, I'm in the uni library sat next to a Muslim man.

He definitely believes the following:

1. Allah exists and deserves humans' worship.

2. Muhammad is God's messenger and last prophet.

3. The Holy Qur'an is the Word of God.

4. Extramarital sex between consenting adults in private is a sin, and therefore people shouldn't do it.

5. If he obeys Allah, he'll go to heaven.

6. Drinking alcohol is haram.

7. Clean speech (no swearing, cussing or cursing) is a good thing.

I don't know him at all, but he may believe the following:

1. The testimony of women should be worth half that of men.

2. People who live a homosexual lifestyle deserve to die.

3. Apostates from Islam should be killed.

4. If people reject Islam, they'll go to hell.

5. Women dressed immodestly is a sin.

So, which of his beliefs should I have respect for, and which shouldn't I have respect for?

Viviane

Respect his right to hold belief, not the belief itself.

I'm sitting in the airport waiting on a delayed flight. Meh.

EdenOne

Since I haven't seen Viviane accusing someone else of being a liar on this thread, I conclude that you're referring to me. It's not acceptable that you carry on with such malevolent accusation when :

a) I backed up with evidence the point I was making; and

b) I demonstrated why It was entirely appropriate that I wrote that "you insisted", and, therefore, there was no lie at all.

c) It was plain to see that so much fuss created about such an insignificant matter wasn't about principles, it was about assassination of character.

Since you insist on denigrating me without justifiable cause, I must insist that you retract your accusation publicly. I don't make light of my good name. And, at the end of the day, if you won't, one of us will leave this forum.

Eden

Simon

We can respect a person even if they have idiotic beliefs. Beliefs themselves are not deserving of respect.

The real problem is that many who's beliefs rely on faith rather than facts take ridicule of those beliefs to be a personal attack. They will claim they are being persecuted for their beliefs even when they are not - only their beliefs are being (rightly) criticized.

Too bad, so sad. That's their problem and I see no reason to tip-toe around their sensitivities. Why? Because they often use the "mock outrage and martyrdom" as a cynical way to silence criticism of their idiotic beliefs.

If something is stupid then we should call it like it is but that doesn't mean attacking the person is fair.

LoveUniHateExams

Respect his right to hold belief - I already do this. Interestingly, Cofty, on a trinity thread, is currently arguing that it's religious peoples' thinking that is faulty.

not the belief itself - you've not said which beliefs deserve respect and which don't.

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

Share this