by StarTrekAngel 372 Replies latest watchtower bible
Exactly, Peacefulpete.
So if I go up to a couple of JW elders at a cart and ask them how they justify their history of false prophecy that is a form of assault is it?
If you ask for information on the basis of their beliefs, it's neither attack nor assault. It all depends on how, er, "robust" your questioning is.
Also, Cofty, it would be helpful if you would define your use of "bad beliefs".
thanks, Retro
PFP: Attacking any aspect of a persons identity, including beliefs, is psychological abuse.
If someone's beliefs are wrong, they need to be corrected.
How that is done is another matter.
Attacking any aspect of a persons identity, including beliefs, is psychological abuse - peacefulpete
This is becoming hilarious. So if I tell a couple of JW elders that I consider their religion to be a family-destroying, mind-controlling, dehumanising cult I have psychologically abused them have I?
Pathetic!
Cofty, it would be helpful if you would define your use of "bad beliefs".
Our beliefs should be commensurate with the evidence. That is what it means to be rational. Christian theism is one common example of a belief that makes extravagant claims devoid of evidence and even makes a virtue out of the lack of evidence.
Before you go any further constructing a straw man please go back and read my first post on this thread on page 1 carefully.
I am all for free speech.
A person can call me an ignorant worthless asshole for not understanding a minute detail about general relativity perfectly, this is within the rights of that person. I am not calling for censorship in that conversation.
However it cuts both ways and I am free to point out that is a silly and aggressive way to communicate.
What a person 'believes' is not sacrosanct. It's subject to change at the drop of a hat based on circumstance, experience, change in doctrine from their religious higher ups, or just a gradual realization that the belief doesn't hold water. People are in a rage nowadays to avoid 'offending' anyone, which is absolutely ridiculous. The very notion of offence is extremely subjective. If I say that it offends me to know that there are people out there right now indoctrinating their children in any religious belief, many would find that offensive which leads to the uncomfortable notion of being offended at someone else's offence. Calling out a belief as incorrect is an act of caring - if we didn't care, we wouldn't bother to speak up.
My two cents, FWIW:
Of course beliefs should be challenged, especially if certain beliefs are openly claimed by people or are forced onto unwilling people.
But when challenging peoples' dearest-held beliefs, surely some tact is called for. Pulling the rug from underneath someone isn't the best way to carry on.
For instance, I've noticed that on the Religious People vs Atheists threads, there has been a bit of, if not outright name-calling, then comments implying stupidity/mental illness for believing in God and 'wickedness' for not believing in God. It's a very emotive topic and people can easily get offended (esp. the religious) but perhaps it's best to be polite, no?
If someone's beliefs are wrong, they need to be corrected.
Not sure if it is that simple. We all entertain incorrect views that are relatively harmless. Calling people out on all of them is unlikely to result in warm relationships. It is always a balance of harm resulting from mistaken beliefs versus potential harm to a relationship.
This is becoming hilarious. So if I tell a couple of JW elders that I consider their religion to be a family-destroying, mind-controlling, dehumanising cult I have psychologically abused them have I
Yes Cofty, that would be abusive and very counterproductive to boot.
A person can call me an ignorant worthless asshole for not understanding a minute detail about general relativity perfectly, this is within the rights of that person. I am not calling for censorship in that conversation.
No one is an ignorant worthless asshole you can learn from anyone! How many people have died for free speech? Too many to number.
So if I tell a couple of JW elders that I consider their religion to be a family-destroying, mind-controlling, dehumanising cult I have psychologically abused them have I - Cofty
Yes Cofty, that would be abusive and very counterproductive to boot. - peacefulpete
Well that's just too bad.
I have had some very robust and productive conversations with JWs on their cult carts and always try to end with shaking their hand and sharing best wishes. Worrying about whether they may feel "psychologically abused" does not even register on my list of concerns.
Food for thought:
""When something is so pervasive it doesn't even occur to people to challenge it. We need to be willing to critically reflect on beliefs even if they are commonly believed." - Dr. Tesia Marshik
Essay: The problems with beliefs (Jim Walker):
US News & World Report: Are 10 Popular Beliefs True or False?
Essay: Do We Care Whether Our Beliefs Are True?
10 false facts most people think are true
Daily Mail: 50 misconceptions that have become modern day 'facts'
