A question for those churchgoing ones...forgiveness (page 2)

Dawn

Just to clear things up - the basic belief in Christianity is that we are all sinners and that only Jesus has the right to forgive us our sins because of his sacrifice. So if we ask him we are forgiven.

Ok - that being said - there is a big difference between forgivness and approval. I can forgive someone for something they did wrong to me but that doesn't mean that I have to approve of what they did OR that I have to like them or let them into my life any longer. I believe that forgivness is actually for the benefit of the victim and NOT the perpetrator because it is a part of our healing when we let it go and do not let it hurt us any longer. When we get to a point where we can say THIS THING no longer has power over me and I am no longer under it's label and I am free from it.

There is a lot of medical evidence showing that when we carry anger we really damage ourselves. Letting it go in forgivness is a part of our own healing and NOT to beneift the perpetrator. I can forgive someone who did wrong to me - but that doesn't mean that he/she is forgiven by Jesus and doesn't have to suffer consequences. The perpetrator has to deal with Jesus himself/herself - and will also suffer consequences for his/her actions.

KGB

Dawn,

Very well said,,,

StinkyPantz

KGB-

You are something. . aren't you?

You being someone who used to claim an accurate knowledge of the scriptures at one time should well know what the scriptures say.

First, where did I ever claim to have an accurate "knowledge of the scriptures"? I don't think it's possible. I was baptized a JW, but I think we both know they didn't have a proper "knowledge of the scriptures". Even so, as a JW, I NEVER believed that all sins were equal. Doesn't the Bible speak of an unforgiveable sin? How is it then all sins are equal?

Just because you left the borg didn't mean you forgot all you learned from your studing the bible did it ?

I'm trying to learn different versions. Jgnat has been nice enough to answer my questions privately and unjudgementally and I appreciate her for that.

I'm sorry if my cotinued belief in God bothers some of you but this is my right to choose to do so just as you have the right to choose against the Lord, so why is it that you atheist can't leave us believers alone in that.

I don't mind if you believe in God. You were pushing your beliefs on us in the other thread so don't act like we are the pushy ones. Everyone was saying that they were happy to see a child molester go and then here you come saying what he did was no worse than stealing a lollipop. This is my eyes, belittles the issue.

Why do you continuly try to tear us down for what we find peace in. If your peace is in not believing in God then so be it. That's your choice.

Who's tearing you down? YOU came into the other discussion spouting scriptures, correct?

Yes I have said some pretty vicious words in some of the post here but at the same time I felt regret and posted an apology for it. It was my guilt as a Christian that made me feel bad, I sure don't see an atheist here saying sorry for all there hateful words.

Oh puh-leeze! I have apologized on numerous occasions. I believe that Simon is athiest (might be wrong) and he just made an apology thread. Athiests forgive and apologize and not because a book tells them to. You can know that I am sincere when I say that I am sorry. I honestly will wonder whether a Christian is saying that they are sorry because the good book says to or because they really feel it.

Maybe its because Gods gives us who believe in him humility and those who don't have the same values as Satan has.

So if God doesn't give humility to us, Satan does ? Or are you saying because I think that stealing a lollipop is worse than molesting a child is a value that Satan has? Oh wait, not having humility is Satan's value? I gotcha.

The only difference is I will not die permanantly but the atheist will, thats sad !

It IS sad! We agree on something! The above words are my example of being cruel. Plus, won't we athiests go to hell? If so, we won't die permanently either.

Dawn-

I am a psychology major, so I know about the adverse affects of pent up anger. I agree, being angry all of the time is harmful. Just because I won't forgive the person who molested me DOES NOT mean I walk around angry. I don't. Most days I don't think about it.

Do you agree that stealing a lollipop is equal to molesting a child?

ashitaka

I judge people and I do not forgive people that do not deserve it.

I'm right about where you are. I Understand that.

ash

ashitaka

I really feel sorry for those of you who claim to be Athiest

And I feel sorry for those deluded enough to believe in a God that forigves equally for unequal crimes. Still, that's not what this thread is about.

ash

DJ

Hate the sin but love the sinner, lest we judge. We have all sinned. The audacity to rely on God's approval of your goods works without acknowledging Him in your life or in the life of His Son who gave His life so that you may receive forgiveness is hypocritical at best. If you works are so wonderful and your life is so clean then yo only lie if you see no need for forgiveness because All of us sin. It may not be a sin such as murder or pedophilia, etc... but we all sin in one way or another. This is the teaching of the gospel. If you feel that good works save you are backwards because good works that come thru faith is proof of a saving faith. A Christians good works come from love and a desire to obey but we do not think we are owed something for it. It is simply what we are supposed to be doing anyway! You cannot earn your salvation. It is thru faith in Christ's sacrifice then all the good works that flow are only a proof of that faith and a desire to do what is pleasing to God. You show me an atheist who lives a perfect sinless life who wants to be saved by his good works and I will show you a liar. We all sin, that is why we need Christ....for forgiveness. Someone who can't admit sin is a lying to themselves. When we are created anew in Christ (born again) even the tiniest things that we do wrong are heavy on our souls and we see all of this sin that we ignored before. That is why we need Christ. love, dj

Dawn

I am a psychology major, so I know about the adverse affects of pent up anger. I agree, being angry all of the time is harmful. Just because I won't forgive the person who molested me DOES NOT mean I walk around angry. I don't. Most days I don't think about it.

Do you agree that stealing a lollipop is equal to molesting a child?

Stinkypantz - I apologize if I gave you that impression. I did not mean that. I was also molested as a child and so feel that I can speak somewhat freely on this topic. I found it a part of my healing process to "forgive" because I needed to do that in order to let it go. But that was the way I healed and each of us as individuals grow in different ways. Perhaps forgivness is not the piece that you need to heal and I can understand that and support you in your right to decide what is best for you. (((((Stinkypantz))))))) again - I'm sorry if I misspoke.

StinkyPantz

((Dawn))-

You are a sweety!! Here's how I feel. "Justice" is how I heal. When A person gets locked up or punished for what they do, I feel better. I'm glad that you were able to forgive, though.

DJ-

I agree with some of the things you said: 1. Hate the sin but love the sinner, lest we judge. 2. We have all sinned. 3. We all sin. 4. Someone who can't admit sin is a lying to themselves. These above statements apply to everyone, not just athiests These things I have a problem with: 1. If you works are so wonderful and your life is so clean then yo only lie if you see no need for forgiveness because All of us sin. It may not be a sin such as murder or pedophilia, etc... but we all sin in one way or another. Who said that they never needed forgiveness? Who? Where? 2. A Christians good works come from love and a desire to obey An athiest's good works come from love also. At least you know that we aren't doing nice things to earn our way into heaven. We do good things because we are SUPPOSE to! Not because a book says so. All Christians are not good people and never are all athiests. 3. It is thru faith in Christ's sacrifice then all the good works that flow are only a proof of that faith and a desire to do what is pleasing to God. I do good works and yet I do not have faith in God, so do mine flow through Satan? 4. You show me an atheist who lives a perfect sinless life who wants to be saved by his good works and I will show you a liar. You show me an Christian who lives a perfect sinless life who wants to be saved by his good works and I will show you a liar. 5. We all sin, that is why we need Christ....for forgiveness. I don't. 6. Someone who can't admit sin is a lying to themselves. Show me a person, athiest or Christian who doesn't admit to sinning. .

Hamas

Believer or not

Forgiveness or not

Faith or not

Religion or not

Rapists and Child abusers are scum and deserve to die a terrible death, without repentance.

May they all burn in hell. Let the fleas of a thousand camels infest their armpits now and for all time

rocketman

(born again) even the tiniest things that we do wrong are heavy on our souls and we see all of this sin that we ignored before. That is why we need Christ. love, dj

Actually, this is one factor that keeps me from drawing close to God. I used to be constantly aware of my "sinfulness" even in the smallest matters. The problem was, this left me with feelings of constant guilt. I guess the key is to keep telling myself that's what the ransom sacrifice is for, to cover over the sins. I try, believe me.

But it's so hard to live like this. Something doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right for me personally, though I'd imagine it's fine for others.

Sometimes I pray before bed or a meal and ask God's forgivenss on my sins that day. But sometimes I'd think: All i did today was go to work, come home, eat dinner, read, and watch TV. In what way did I sin?

I know, it's the Christian teaching that we are all sinners. And maybe that day at work i took a second look at a pretty girl, or got a bit upset, or maybe that TV show I watched was not the most wholesome. But my goodness, if I have to sweat stuff like that, it's going to wear me out - fast. That's a big reason why I gave up on the jws. Living with constant guilt was not doing me any good.

A question for those churchgoing ones...forgiveness

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