RAPE & GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by JT 55 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Hamas

  http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/sex_list.htm

  It does seem a little harsh
• 

  peacefulpete

  The seemingly odd ruling in the OT about "rape" is because rape was not the issue, it is about property ownership.(woman owned by father or husband) The "law" only pertained to married or betrothed women. Virgins that were unengaged were free for the taking. The punishment for "taking" an unmarried Jewish woman was to pay the father for the loss in wages he would now recieve for her on the virgin market.(bride price) and marry her. If she was not an Isrealite, she was fair game. There are of course other passages that represent later ideas.
• 

  Lady Lee

  Hmmm yes the property issue but perhaps it isn't so much that screaming will bring help but rather a form of protest (like we really want this to begin with) and the protest isn't even to what the perp is doing but an internal protest to get the victim off the slef-blame kick

  Just ignore me - don't think Iam making too much sense

  Like BT I too prayed to God to make the hurting stop. It didn't. Although I believe he exists I don't think he really has much to do with us.

  As for those folks who pray for their side to win whether that is sports or politics or war I think that just makes them feel better or justified in what they do. Always nice to know you have the big guy on your side - sort of like a sugar pill for some. For others it may reduce guilt for going out and killing other humans "But God said we could"
• 

  JT

  i would like to thank all of you for your comments- and i truly understand the catch 22 that believers find themselves in when trying to reconcile what one is taught be it the bible/koran/ holybook and what one ACTUALLY sees

  while on paper the bible/koran/holy book says god looks out for the inocent - yet for 1000's of yrs we see an entirely different issue

  case in point - one of the most powerful teachings found in most belief systems is that man is created in the image of god himself, when asked what does that mean believers will comment

  well it means that we display the same qualities as god----- as someone mentioned in a post-- Justice Love Concern, fairness, etc

  that being the case very few folks would think that there must BE SOME REASON that a Loving Father would allow his kids to Kill each other, the sons rape their little sisters and just daily mayhelm

  in fact if most folks were called on to testify as to whether they felt that such a man was fit they would for the most part say no

  but when it comes to god - the believer sees the mayhelm in front of them and since they are unable to call a spade a spade they dig deep down in thier soul and say;; "There must be a reason I just don't understand it"

  what is interesting is when we were in wt we did something very similliar, if you ask the avg former

  --jw did they see something wrong in the org-- most will say Yes , but i kept telling myself I just don't understand and god will clean it up in due time

  yet many see so many things that clearly are wrong and they to still continue to say god will clean it up and just like we have seen wt convince us that after 130yrs if WE Just Wait a Little LONGER god will clean it up

  beleivers are much in the same positions, for they say Yes those things are wrong and bad and folks suffer but if you just wait a little longer god will clean it up and you will see it was all for a purpose-

  the only difference is it is not for 130yrs instead it has been over 6000yrs that man has been waiting for god to clean it up

  how sad

  well for many who have left at you walk out your front door to see Frank across the street
• 

  AGuest

  I would like to "stand in the gap" and make a reply, if I may. Thank you... and may you all have peace!

  First, I must reply to JT's comment that:

  the kicker is this has been going on since the days of old and yet up till today NOT ONE WOMAN HAS HAS GOD INTERVENE

  You are only partially correct, dear JT: the entire tribe of Ben-Jah-Min was almost completely wiped out due to a heinous rape. The remaining tribe was so small, they had to join with Judah to stay in existence. True, my Father did not "intervene"... in other words, stop the act as it occurred, but He did bring vengeance upon that entire tribe.

  With that said, I would like to offer an explanation, if you all will permit me. Thank you.

  First, the reason for the scream was so that the woman would be cleared; alternatively, she could not accuse a man of rape if she was... consenting to the act. How would one know whether she was or not? Now, I am sure there will be those who will say, "Well, if she SAYS she was raped, that should be good enough." To that, I would say, if ALL women were completely forthright and honest, the statement would be true; however, not all women are. Some... to save their own... ummmm... reputations... as well as appease their bruised ego and pride... WILL falsely accuse a man of taking liberties he really didn't take. You ALL know that this is true.

  Therefore, what if a man and woman had consensual sex, but later, when she feels scorned or faces negative exposure of some sort, SHE says it was NOT consensual? How do we deal with that? For isn't it truly her word... against his? Wait! I do not say that all women lie when raped; of COURSE not. But... some do... and men DO get falsely accused... all the time. There has to be SOME means to determine whether she "wanted" it... or not. Since there are usually no witnesses... other than the two parties in question... there has to be some way.

  Now, be THAT as it may, I wish to explain to you that about the Law which many do not yet understand:

  When you READ the Law... it appears to be bunch of "do's" or "don't's"... and "if you do... or don't... you will die". But such appearance... is MISLEADING... and religion LOVES to use it in this way. Particularly religions like the WTBTS: these would have you believe if someone committed some "sin" under the Law that required, say, stoning... and you did NOT stone the person... you were held personally liable... for you, too, had now sinned, by virtue of your doing nothing. They use this all the time to justify their sitting in judgment against folks.

  But what is the TRUTH? All we need do is look at Christ... the one who committed NO sin: when a woman "caught in the act of adultery" was brought to him by the Pharisees... they SAID to him that the Law "said" she MUST be stoned. Now, if in TRUTH... she WAS to be stoned... why did my Lord not judge... and STONE her? He... did not transgress even ONE Law, did he? No. What DID he do? He... FORGAVE her... and THAT... is what the LAW... required!

  Wait, some will ask: by reason of his FORGIVING her... hadn't HE now trangressed the Law? No. Dear ones... he FULFILLED the Law. How? He FORGAVE her... which forgiveness was born of LOVE... and LOVE... is the Law's... FULFILLMENT. There is no "law"... against love!

  You see, the self-righteous Pharisees of that day... and many of THIS day... LOVE... not the PEOPLE... but the LAW! Why? Because they can USE it... to "bind up heavy loads" which they put UPON the people! What were they SUPPOSED to do... and what are the "Pharisees" of today SUPPOSED to do? Judge? Condemn? Nope. They are SUPPOSED... to "fulfill" the Law to the best of their ability, too.

  THAT is why my Lord CONDEMNED them, when he said to them, "Woe, to you, scribes and Pharisees... HYPOCRITES!"

  Did he call them such because they were adulterers, too, or because they were falsely accusing the woman? No. He said it because they were wanting HER to be condemned under the Law... and yet, THEY had trangressed it, too? How? He goes on to say:

  "Because you give the tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin... BUT... you have disregarded... THE WEIGHTIER matters of the Law... namely... justice... AND MERCY... and faithfulness."

  What is my point? MERCY... was even WEIGHTIER... than the "do's and don't's" of the Law! Dear ones, we so often read the Law... and tend to see only commands that must be fulfilled or end in death. But that is NOT the case... at ALL! The LAW... was brought into existence... to make sin... MANIFEST... NOT so that you could judge your brother... but so that:

  1. YOU would know when YOU trangressed against your brother, so that could SEEK HIS FORGIVENESS; and

  2. Your BROTHER would know when you transgressed against him, so he could FULFILL the Law... and FORGIVE you; or

  3. When your brother transgressed against you, HE could come to you and seek your FORGIVENESS; and

  4. When your brother transgressed against YOU .. YOU... could FULFILL the Law... by FORGIVING him.

  But those who adhere to the Law... cannot SEE this truth, for just as Paul (?) wrote, "Whenever Moses is read... a VEIL... lies... upon their HEARTS." The Law... dear ones... OBSCURES love. It was up to US, then... to look BEHIND the "curtain"... an individual's FLESH that "hides" the true intent... and see... the SPIRIT: what was the MOTIVE behind the act.

  Now, none of this accounts for why God has not, in your opinion, "acted" on behalf of those who've been victimized by such a crime, rape. But I would say to you that He only EVER acted with regard to His people Israel... for all others rejected Him when He looked for a "friend" and found only Abraham... and once THEY (Israel) rejected Him... by means of rejecting first, His prophets, and then killing His Son... that ceased, as well. But even that does not completely explain His "inactivity." Here is the TRUTH:

  God... does not act... because He has charged such action... TO US. It is our CHARGE... our RESPONSIBILITY... to plead the cause of the innocent and the lowly. It is our OBLIGATION. For we ARE our "brothers' keeper"... and all things, therefore, that we want men to do... to US... we... MUST DO... to THEM! Unfortunately, we do not WANT to be... "keepers"... nor do we WANT "keepers"... but would rather sit back and wait on... and/or blame... God.

  We don't want to BE "keepers"... because that means we have to look out for others. What? We have our own lives to live and our own stuff to think about and care for. And we don't WANT "keepers"... because folks don't know how to just help out... no, they have to be all up in your business. Thus, the BEST thing... is to let each one worry about him or her self... and his or hers. Right?

  Although, everyday... on this planet... WE... kill one another... rape one another... molest one another... steal from one another... lie to one another... abuse one another... deceive one another... oppress one another... and judge and condemn one another. We are, in fact, the ONLY species... that does... at least, out of maliciousness. And, of course, it's not OUR fault... but God's. Right?

  Yet, we are the ONLY species... in heaven AND on earth... that blames GOD... for our existence... and its sorry state. We... earthling man. The so-called great intelligence... highest on the food chain. And yet, we can't even take responsibility for ourselves, but blame some other entity who isn't even involved. Even the animals don't go that far. And we even abuse them.

  Think about it: how many of YOU have witnessed... or come to know of... SOME type of abuse: child... elderly... spousal... animal... a street fight... what have you... and have done absolutely nothing about it... for whatEVER reason?

  "Not ME... I ain't gettin' involved in that - ain't none of my business. Let... the family... police... mayor... President... GOD... handle it."

  How many of you have that friend or family member who you KNOW ought to leave the relationship, but, hey, "ain't none of my business. Let... the family... police... mayor... President... GOD... handle it."

  I now ask you: WHY? WHY do you stay out of it? Because you don't CARE? Nonsense... you stay out of it... because you KNOW... that the person will leave when THEY are ready... and not one minute before (leave, that is, without coming back to the abuse)... and/or your input/interference will NOT be appreciated and most likely... "they"... are gonna turn... on YOU.

  And isn't that the VERY case with God? Intervene... and He's damned as an unloving, dictatorial tyrant. Don't intervene... and He's damned as a impotent phantom god.

  And, no, it is not the same thing as rape... but the POINT is the same: YOU... stay out of your neighbors'/family's business because YOU know... beyond possibly getting hurt... you may also get BLAMED for whatever goes "wrong" in the eyes of the other... when all YOU were trying to do is help... and/or your concern, intervention, etc., most probably won't be appreciated, at all!

  God... stays out of earthling man's "bizness"... for the very same reason: lack of appreciation for the effort... as well as He CAN'T change it... without killing someone. Why? Because... we're hard-headed, hard-hearted and stiff-necked... and it ain't until some folks DIE... that anyone pays any attention!

  YOU... just see it on a much smaller scale than God: you see things on an individual basis; God... sees things on the basis of entire nations... as well as the entire species.

  Those of us who THINK we are looking at the man in the mirror... still haven't quite got it... that we are, in fact, STILL... pointing fingers... in the wrong direction. I say to you: blame MAN... for what MAN... does to MAN. For if we are "right" in saying, "Why doesn't GOD do something," then we should consider taking the RAFTER out of our own eyes... before trying to get the splinter... out of His.

  I challenge ALL of earthling who wish to blame God for mankind's atrocities: clean your own "house"... rather than blaming someone else for its "state". For even in THIS world... when you let it get SO bad that other must clean your house FOR you... they tend to throw out, everything... including the things you don't necessarily want them to.

  It will be that way... when my Father... "cleans house."

  I bid you the greatest of peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  wednesday

  This is a complex and emotional isue. I have only jone comment, screaming is actually a good idea. i have watched quite a few self dfense programs and they all say scream, evenif u know no help is available. The purposej is to rattle the rapist. They also say fight if u can. Really, if in the situation, a person would just have to do what they thought would perserve their life. I watched jay Lo in a movie whre her husband ws tryiing to kill her, and she trained to defend hreself. The training told her to "attack and keep attacking". One can only take self defense courses and be prepared.
• 

  teejay

  YET the god of the heavens --and for those who believe that Jesus IS GOD ( THE JOHN 1:1 CROWD)-- THEN we would have to say that Jesus - ALONG with billions and billions of angels are ONLY ONES WHO will hear her scream out. YET WHAT do they do- NOTHING- so here we have a woman or child who is forced by someone perhaps much bigger and stronger than they and God'/Jesus/Angles DO NOTHING TO HELP -- JT

  So, JT, I take it that you don't beleive in god. Or else, you think he and his buds up in heaven are perverts and get off on seeing women abused.
• 

  Lady Lee

  aguest

  This is one person who does get involved, who does call the police, who helps people get the help they need

  and there are more and more of us all the time that see this as a collective responisibility so we can live in a society that really does have 0-tolerance for abuse
• 

  AGuest

  Then, dearest Lady Lee... peace to you... may JAH bless you and He will, through Christ. For just as my Lord said, "To the extent you did it... to the LEAST one of these my brothers... you did it... to me."

  He is not speaking only of the 144,000 taken from "among the sons of Israel, dear Lee... but those who are not "like Cain," which includes Israel... AND the nations. For the Samaritan man, although not a Jew... but an ENEMY of the Jews... even though an Israelite... was "proved righteous"... by DEMONSTRATING his love for his "neighbor". Which "neighbor" might have not returned the kindness, but instead, held the Samaritan to be HIS "enemy".

  May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... prove to be upon you to time indefinite, dear Lady Lee... and those LIKE you... who DEMONSTRATE their faith... by means of DEMONSTRATING their love... if you so wish it.

  I am your servant... by means of you having made yourself a servant to others.

  Again, I bid you peace,

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  Lady Lee

  Why do I feel sick
  

  SJ could that be Sword of Jah??? posing as aguest