by JT 55 Replies latest watchtower bible
YET the god of the heavens --and for those who believe that Jesus IS GOD ( THE JOHN 1:1 CROWD)-- THEN we would have to say that Jesus - ALONG with billions and billions of angels are ONLY ONES WHO will hear her scream out. YET WHAT do they do- NOTHING- so here we have a woman or child who is forced by someone perhaps much bigger and stronger than they and God'/Jesus/Angles DO NOTHING TO HELP -- JT
So, JT, I take it that you don't beleive in god. Do you?
True, my Father did not "intervene
And, no, it is not the same thing as rape... but the POINT is the same
the above comment was made and it is interesting to see how even the posters knows THE EXAMPLE HE GAVE DOESN'T FIT THE ISSUE OF RAPE, but like wt --in trying to do the Anti-typical applications on many of thier interpetations the posters attempted to make it fit despite the fact that they know the example they sited didn't fit the issue of rape
YOU... just see it on a much smaller scale than God: you see things on an individual basis; God... sees things on the basis of entire nations... as well as the entire species.
the above post is also interesting by the same poster-- SJ if i'm not mistaken--
on one hand believers teach that god deals with us as "Indiviuals" but when that explanation flies in the face of logic , they switch gears and tell us that god deals with us only as nations or groups-
TJ asked about my views on god, - if the belief in a god gets one thru the day, gives one hope and helps them deal with the day to day life of living, then fine- i just don't need to share that view to get thru my day, that's all
Those of us who THINK we are l
So, JT, I take it that you don't beleive in god. Or else, you think he and his buds up in heaven are perverts and get off on seeing women abused.
So, JT, I take it that you don't beleive in god. Do you? -- teejayif the belief in a god gets one thru the day, gives one hope and helps them deal with the day to day life of living, then fine- i just don't need to share that view to get thru my day, that's all
So... is that a "no"?
"And, no, it is not the same thing as rape... but the POINT is the same"
the above comment was made and it is interesting to see how even the posters knows THE EXAMPLE HE GAVE DOESN'T FIT THE ISSUE OF RAPE,
My point DOES fit the issue of rape, dear JT... and peace to you; however, it does not solve your question of INTERVENTION. Let's go back to what was said. You first:
the kicker is this has been going on since the days of old and yet up till today NOT ONE WOMAN HAS HAS GOD INTERVENEI said:
You are only partially correct, dear JT: the entire tribe of Ben-Jah-Min was almost completely wiped out due to a heinous rape. The remaining tribe was so small, they had to join with Judah to stay in existence. True, my Father did not "intervene"... in other words, stop the act as it occurred, but He did bring vengeance upon that entire tribe. True, my Father did not "intervene
I did not address the issue of intervention because I have addressed that issue... over... and over... and over again: it is upon US... to be our brother's "keeper". That charge was given to US. I do not know if you have children, but I ask you, IF, as a father, you put, say, your GROWN son, in charge of your daughter (whether younger, older, whathaveyou)... with instructions to watch out for her, and some harm came to her... particularly harm at the hands of such son... WHO would you hold "accountable"?
The PROBLEM is... that perhaps you... like many, MANY others... think there was no "law"... until Sinai. But the Law existed LONG before Sinai. If not, why did Moses feel the need to hide after killing the Egyptian? Why did Zipporah know of circumcision? Dear one... the Law... was SUPPOSED to be on Israel's HEART... handed down ORALLY... from one generation to the next. Apparently, Israel had LEFT the Law... when they lived in Egypt, so that when they left they did not conduct themselves... accordingly. They did not CARE for one another... but murmurred and complained and blamed... Moses, Aaron and Miriam... as well as God!
but like wt --in trying to do the Anti-typical applications on many of thier interpetations the posters attempted to make it fit despite the fact that they know the example they sited didn't fit the issue of rape
What you say is completely untrue. Were that so... I would have attempted to make my point WITHOUT the disclosure of the difference. But I ask you... HOW many times does a thing have to be said before *you* hear... and get the SENSE of it? I can direct you back to previous posts I have been permitted to post which will explain... in DETAIL... WHY my Father no longer intervenes. One of them discusses why WE don't... and the hypocrisy of blaming God when WE stand by and let harm come to others. But... you completely overlooked that... in your effort to be "right". Why IS that?
Then, I said:
YOU... just see it on a much smaller scale than God: you see things on an individual basis; God... sees things on the basis of entire nations... as well as the entire species.
which is completely true, but to which you responded:
This is inaccurate: God... deals with MANKIND in general... as nations... as a group... but with those who BELONG TO HIM, by means of CHRIST... individually FIRST... AND as a group. But, while you wish to take only this one post and make an entire case out of it... I have made such an statement over... and over... and over again. I wish that I had the ENERGY to explain the same things... over and over and over and over again, each time someone either misinterprets something I've posted... misstates something I've posted... or has absolutely no idea and makes an assumption based on something I've posted.the above post is also interesting by the same poster-- SJ if i'm not mistaken--
on one hand believers teach that god deals with us as "Indiviuals" but when that explanation flies in the face of logic , they switch gears and tell us that god deals with us only as nations or groups-
I CANNOT repost each post I post. But they are ALL there... for any and all to READ... so that rather than draw erroneous conclusions and make misleading statements based on HALF of the story... one can read and see for oneself what my understanding is... as I have come to know it through holy spirit, by means of Christ.
TJ asked about my views on god, - if the belief in a god gets one thru the day, gives one hope and helps them deal with the day to day life of living, then fine- i just don't need to share that view to get thru my day, that's all
And THIS... is what gets to me: you LACK of view... is FINE... with me. True, it may not be fine with ALL who profess to be "christian"... but I get SO TIRED of being lumped in among people who believe nothing or close to nothing of what I know and understand... just because they put a label on themselves.
I have not come here to say "believe or be destroyed". Neither you nor anyone else here have EVER heard me say... or seen me post such a thing. My understanding FAR exceeds that limited view of "salvation."
MY purpose... MY obligation... MY commission... MY job... is simply to share what I hear, which... for the MOST part... is that contrary to what the WTBTS teaches... the "Door" is STILL open... WIDE open... and the invitation to "Come" is STILL be called out. The 144,000 are NOT the only ones who are to "eat and drink"... they are NOT the only ones to "go to heaven"... they are NOT the only "ones" who are sons of God... who are even CALLED to be sons of God... that God, through Christ, DOES speak to us... that it is NOT "demons"... and that ALL can hear... IF they are truly wishing to.
However, not all DO hear... because not all WANT to hear. And yes, many... indeed most... will SAY they want to hear... but as soon as that "truth" gets TOO close... as soon as it say "Look... in the MIRROR... rather than through the WINDOW..." they suddenly CAN'T hear.
The Law... is not a window. It was NOT for the purpose of looking at others and pointing a finger: it is a MIRROR... for one to look at ONESELF... and "fix" ONESELF... before trying to "fix" everyone else... including God.
AND... if one finds that one can NOT "fix" oneself... entirely... that due to whatever sort of "weakness" one has IN one... whether a GREAT weakness or a small one... there is... a RANSOM. There is One who can "fix" it FOR us. NOT by means of fixing you IN THE FLESH... (that is no longer the case - he did that when he was on earth in the flesh)... but "fixing" you... IN THE SPIRIT! Not what you are... on the OUTSIDE... but what you are... on the INSIDE!
For even if you were "cleansed" of all defilement of FLESH... no illness... no deformity... no abnormalty... of FLESH... it is STILL what you are INSIDE that deems you clean... or UNclean.
WE... go around looking at what folks are on the OUTSIDE: "Ooooh, poor thing. Someone should fix him!" I will tell you a TRUE story:
A dear friend... whose gift is healing (and yes, he has used it, even on cancer!)... "wanted" to heal a young man who was... "deformed": the young man most probably had a low IQ and thus, could not work, other than the usual "goodwill" type stuff. So... the friend went to the young man and told him what he wanted to do. And the young man's reply? "I LIKE the way I am!"
My point? There was nothing WRONG with the young man! WE... would think something "wrong" because of what we SEE. HE, however, knew he was okay because of who he was... on the INSIDE.
And we see it all the time: always trying to find a "cure" for what ails the flesh. Yet, what ails the SPIRIT... gets worse... and worse. All the time.
WE... have it BACKWARD. If WE... would change what we are... on the INSIDE... we would NEED to blame God... or ANYONE... for rape. Or murder. Or war. Or crime. These things exist, however, NOT because of God... but because... of us... what WE are... on the INSIDE.
Now, of course, I know there are those who will still not get the point. They will STILL wish to find blame in someone other than themselves... or their fellowman. And why IS that? Because... since we can recognize our OWN weaknesses... we can find it easy to make excuses for ours and that of man. But, since we do not recognize weakness in GOD... we can find no excuse.
The problem with this is that we can FIND no weakness in God... because there IS no weakness in God. Therefore... the DEFECT... is ours.
Hear... and get the SENSE of it.
Before I close, I would ask these questions, once more, although I have asked them many times before... with no answer given, to date:
1. IF there is no God... IF God does not exist... WHO then are you blaming? What SENSE does it make to blame someone who does not EXIST?
2. If God DOES exist... and He IS the Almighty Sovereign... who are YOU... to find fault with HIM, you who are but an exhalation... you, who won't even be here in 100 years? Do you TRULY know the "history" of the milleniums? Or is your "view" based PURELY on what you have READ?
3. If He IS "Almightly"... then wouldn't His CHOICES be right and just?
4. And if they are NOT should you not be in FEAR for the simple reason that His LACK of righteousness and justice would move Him to wipe YOU out, simply because of your presumptuousness... and yet, you still live?
5. And if He ISN'T "almighty"... then what DIFFERENCE does it make - can you TRULY be responsible for OUR actions... for OUR plight... any more than you do any other lesser god?
But... you have it wrong. You based on understanding on what you have read... and how such readings have been explained to you... BY EARTHLING MAN... earthling man who has used such writings from times long ago... to draw man AWAY from God... by instilling in him FEAR... rather than LOVE... instead of going to the One who is the IMAGE of God... the EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS BEING... instead of looking to the life and teachings of THAT One... so that...
you have been misled.
And as a result, the "defect"... is yours.
Hear... please... and get the SENSE of it. STOP putting your trust in earthling man. STOP listening to his false doctrines, his traditions, his teachings... and listen... to the ONE APPOINTED BY GOD... to LEAD YOU INTO ALL TRUTH.
Because it is by means OF that One... of knowing HIM... that you will know GOD... which, in TRUTH, is what you all TRULY want to do. God DOES answer you. YOU... do not listen to One... by whom He does it.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
IF, as a father, you put, say, your GROWN son, in charge of your daughter (whether younger, older, whathaveyou)... with instructions to watch out for her, and some harm came to her... particularly harm at the hands of such son... WHO would you hold "accountable"?
Shelby,
All due respect, this is BULLSHIT. Just because YOU as the responsible party (the father) choose to shirk your responsibility by blithely assigning it to another family member--does not mean that person has the tools or power to control the situation, or the responsibility to do so.
You are trying to tell me, a PERFECT GOD put imperfect humans in charge of other imperfect humans, and that's the answer to why he doesn't intervene?!?!?!?
"God help me please, I am being raped!"
"Listen, I gave you George Bush and Hamid Karzai to help your ass out." (By the way, you are SOL- Shit out of Luck)
Does this excuse fly? Hell no.
According to YOUR bible, humans were put in charge of ANIMALS and were to have animals in subjection, not each other.
I think I'll go put my 13 year old in charge of the 18-month old's emotional development and physical safety for the next, say, three years. I'm sick of this mothering shit. She can handle it, after all I'm giving her the responsibility.
Lisa
Resigning her post, effective immediately Class
So, JT, I take it that you don't beleive in god. Do you? -- teejayif the belief in a god gets one thru the day, gives one hope and helps them deal with the day to day life of living, then fine- i just don't need to share that view to get thru my day, that's all
So... is that a "no"? ################ Atheist to the bone my man
bttt for Shel.
Waiting for your response, Shel.
How would you respond to this child's prayers to God Shelby?
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/54647/1.ashx
Rather not post the entirety of it here but am interested in your response to the first post
and if you choose to read the rest any other posts there but the first one mainly
Hey, girl... peace to you! First, please... PLEASE... don't take my caps as "shouting". They are for emphasis... purely. Okay, now...
I guess I am confused: I mean, I did include the words "GROWN", but your example uses children. And I don't think that's the same thing because I think the GROWN son in my example COULD... and SHOULD have been held responsible. Because if he COULDN'T and SHOULDN'T... then we CAN'T and SHOULDN'T go around holding teachers, caregivers, or anyone else we GIVE responsibility for our children to... whom we have ENTRUSTED with such responsibility... when something goes wrong while in their care. In the scenario... the son's responsibility didn't USURP the father's... it simply AUGMENTED it... for a period of time.
So, I ask you... if YOU leave your child with a caregiver... or teacher... and some harm comes to YOUR child... is that teacher or caregiver released from responsibility? Should you not expect that teacher/caregiver to exercise the some level of caution... hopefully, the same that YOU would exercise... with those entrusted to their care? Or are YOU to blame, even though you weren't there? Because by means of what you are saying, he or she is actually absolved of ANY responsibility, because only YOU were responsible! And what of the person who CAUSED the harm... are they, too, NOT responsible because only YOU can be?
I ask you: can't GROWN people be put in positions of responsibility... ACCEPT that responsibility... and be held ACCOUNTABLE for the outcome... whether good (and so rewarded)... OR bad (and so reproved)? Or are we all just without ANY responsibility or accountability? If so, why don't we all just do whatever the heck we want to do... REGARDLESS of how it affects anyone else... and let the final accountability lay with God? Because THAT... is what you and many others here are suggesting. And THAT... is EXACTLY what is going on: many... MANY... are doing just whatever the HECK they want... regardless of how it affects others... even children.
Regarding subjection, it is true that the animals were put "in subjection" - I ask you... up until maybe the last 50 years - how did we "care" for them, for the most part? And if we WERE to care for animals, who were subjected to us... how then should we care for HUMANS... who are EQUAL to us? But DO we care for our fellow humans?
In addition, please hear and know this TRUTH, dear "daughter": contrary to POPULAR belief... it is NOT only your responsibility, as a mother, to care for your children. True, it is PRIMARILY your responsibility... and your husband's. But the responsibility lies... on us ALL!
I find it "funny"... as in peculiar... that even the most primitive peoples understood this concept, while those of the more... ummmm... "civilized" groups tended to throw this right out the door. Why did the former know it and not the latter? Because for the FORMER... it was not some "law" written down on stone or paper... but in their HEARTS. They KNEW it... perhaps from having it passed down orally from generation to generation, but regardless, in their HEARTS... they knew the TRUTH of it: the people of the group... particularly the children... are the responsibility of the entire group. If something happened to ONE in the group... it happened to ALL. If ONE met with good fortune... they ALL met with good fortune. If one met with harm... they ALL felt that harm!
The latter, however, those who consider themselves to be "civilized"... need such a truth to be WRITTEN. And even then... they fail to heed it. Why? Because of the BOUNDARIES "we" have established, the "me/mine" syndrome, which syndrome violates God's laws! "MY country... MY state... MY neighborhood... MY house... MY child." So, that... others are precluded from helping... from even TAKING any responsibility:
Have you not seen the "bad" kid in the neighborhood, whose needs a good "what for" for bullying the other children? (And I might add, here, that CONTRARY to what you see on television, such "bullies" are NOT always overweight and chubby - there's a PLETHORA of skinny "good-looking" kids who are just plain MEAN!)
But what happens when you tell the child to behave? "You ain't my mama!" And when you try to tell the parent? "MY Johnny wouldn't do what you said. You're lying on MY Johnny. You need to mind your own business and worry about your OWN kids. Don't tell MY child what to do!"
You all know it's true. You have either seen it... been a victim of it... or had someone try to tell you something about yourself or your child that you weren't even trying to hear. THAT... is also the TRUTH.
Which leads to the "your" syndrome... as in "the responsibility is not MINE... but YOURS." And we have now taken that "syndrome"... all the way to God: it is not MY responsibility, God... but YOUR's.
But, Lisa, let me ask you: If I see you... and/or YOUR child... naked, hungry, without shelter or what have you... what "good" do I do you if I say, "Hey, girl, hope things get better. I will pray to God to send ya'll some food. In the meantime, stay warm!" but never offer you the means to obtain some food and warmth? Okay, so I said some "good" words - BIG whoop! But in TRUTH, am I concerned with YOU? Or am I saying to MYself, "Hope things get better with Sistah-Girl, but I got ME and MINE to care for - she ain't MY problem!"
What if, on the other hand, I gave you a meal AND my coat? THEN... I would have DEMONSTRATED what I SAID I wished. I... took responsibility. And where does God fit into this? It is just as my Lord and others have said: GOD... then will REPAY... ME. I give to YOU... HE... gives BACK... to ME. I promise you... this is TRUE. And just as He repays when one does GOOD... He will repay those who do bad.
Matthew 6:4, 18; Romans 12:19; 2 Thessalonians 1:6; 2 Timothy 4:14
THANKFULLY... the repayment for GOOD is speedily, while the repayment for BAD... is yet to come. Why do I say "thankfully"? Because, IMPERFECT human that I am... I want to be paid for my GOOD right away; however, for that which I have done "bad"... there has been time for me to turn around and receive mercy. Had such repayment also come speedily, perhaps I might not be here... getting to know you and others... whom I have come to love VERY much.
For unlike US... who would see OUR "justice" meted out quickly... and in many cases HASTILY (I give you the lynchings of the past century)... GOD... is merciful... gracious... and SLOW... to anger. Praise, JAH!
Exodus 34:6, 7
Back to rape...
Since it is the CHARGE of ALL of us to look after one another... how then can we blame God when a certain MAN... (or woman)... VIOLATES that charge and harms another? Is it not that MAN... (or woman)... who is responsible and NOT God? And what of those who stand by or attempt to make excuse for such ones... friends... family...
I give you the young man in Las Vegas, whose friend raped and murdered the 10 year old little black girl. He KNEW what was taking place? Did he stop his friend? Nope. Did he go get help for her? Nope. Was he CONVICTED? Nope. Why? Because, apparently... he did... nothing. By nothing, I mean, he didn't rape and kill her. MAN'S laws, then, says... he has no accountability. Yet, he ALSO did "nothing" to stop his "friend" or to help the little girl! Were we appalled? Some of us, yes? And what did WE do? Nothing. But what does GOD's law say? Did "we" carry out GOD's law? Nope. But... we have NO problem BLAMING God. How does that WORK exactly? Aren't WE to blame for not carrying out the law?
Okay, someone will say, "Well, I thought we were supposed to forgive." But this was NOT a case of forgiveness - it was a case of "It wasn't me or MY child that got hurt... and it wasn't ME or my son who raped and killed her... and it wasn't ME or my son who stood by and let it occur. Therefore, it really ain't none of MY business. Let GOD handle it."
THEN... we turn around and say, "Oh, LOOK! GOD... didn't "handle" it! HE's to blame!"
Now... "we"... "handled" it in OUR way... which was to do NOTHING. Yet, we now wish to blame GOD... whom "we" assume also did nothing. Is that not HYPOCRISY?
I tell you, dear Lisa, it is like the hypocritical Pharisees: WE... want someone ELSE... GOD... to do things that we CAN do... but don't... because the responsibility... the "load"... is too HEAVY for us! So, rather than carry the SAME "load" we put on another, God... "we"... wish to put the entire "load"... the RESPONSIBILITY... on HIM. Like the Pharisees... put it on the PEOPLE... when it was in THEIR power... to do!
Now, there are those who will say, "But what about God holding US responsible when HE does NOTHING? Isn't that the same thing?"
And I would have to say, no, it is not. First, while my Father may not have yet acted... do NOT assume that He will NOT act ever. He will. In the meantime, God is not down here saying, "LISA! Why didn't YOU do something about that incident?! Why didn't YOU stop it?!"
And why is that? Because (1) God is merciful; HE... knows OUR... limitations. HE... knows that MANY of us WOULD do something... IF WE COULD. He also knows that there are many who hearts are "removed" from Him... and who are "more numerous" than us... and there is strength in numbers. Most of us are NOT like David: we would NOT stand up before an army and slay a "giant" all on our own with nothing but a slingshot and some rocks.
But does HE... hold this against US? No, He does not. No more than He held it against Israel that only David stood up. Thus, while "we"... AS A GROUP... are "guilty" of crimes against one another... "we"... INDIVIDUALLY... we can approach through Christ and let Him know that "WE"... ARE 'sighing and groaning' over the 'detestable' things that go on... just as HE is. We can also let Him know that WE... carry in US... the SAME 'mercy' as He... that WE... do not wish ANY to die... but ALL to "get it"... to repent of wickedness and be saved... from ourselves as well as the "enslavement" into which we were sold.
So that the time He is taking... while it does seem long... is truly merciful. Why? Because... IF He were to act... speedily... hastily... NOW... some of US... as well as those we LOVE... might have to go. We don't know who is here among us that we CALL 'friend'... who has committed such acts. We do not know who among those we love, those we may call "family"... who may have committed such acts. And EVERY time it is someone close to US... we can come up with all KINDS of excuses: "please, God, he/she didn't MEAN it. If you only knew what he/she went through as a child themselves. Please, God... HAVE MERCY."
And... we do not know who among those we do NOT call friend or family... who we do NOT love, by virtue of having something "against" them... so that in TRUTH... we might be quite PLEASED if they were to go... are actually very GOOD people. WE... see what is on the OUTSIDE; God... sees... what is one the INSIDE. And NONE of us know... the 'spirit' of a man, except with regard to ourselves only. And many of us don't even know that.
So, I ask YOU, dear Lisa... and every one of you here, as I have asked before:
What would YOU... have God DO... and at what POINT? Would you have him wipe people out BEFORE they commit an evil act... in anticipation of such act? And, if so, would that not be killing an INNOCENT person, because one has not yet committed the crime? I give you Cain: God KNEW Cain was going to kill Abel - He WARNED Cain. Should He have foregone the warning and just killed Cain instead?
Or would you have had Him wipe him out DURING the crime, which seems "logical" to me? But then, I would ask you: WHICH crimes would YOU deem worthy of Him doing this? Murder? Rape? Incest? Theft? Adultery? Anything that causes another "pain"? How much pain would it have to cause? What if YOU feel something is not as "bad" as another feels it it?
God is damned, dear ones... by mankind... if He DOES... and damned again... by mankind... if He DOESN'T.
God TRIED to show His TRUE self... when He wiped out wickedness once before, with a flood, when He delivered Israel from brutal slavery in Egypt, when He killed their enemies who were persecuting them... and yet, they turned on Him. Were they grateful? For a minute or so... and then they would turn on Him again.
He also TRIED to show His TRUE self... that He is SLOW to anger, MERCIFUL and ABUNDANT in loving kindness... when He sent His Son... the EXACT REPRESENTATION of His Being... to show mankind how HE was... and how they should be with one another... because they CERTAINLY weren't "getting it"... which Son... mankind... killed.
Lisa, tell me honestly... at what point would YOU sit back and say, "Okay, kids... you're on your own. Because when I DO help you... you turn on me... and when I DON'T... you blame me for what YOU do... to one another." At what point would YOU say, "I will help those of my children who come to ME... but those who wish to be on their own... okay... you're on... your... own?"
I am sorry, dear ones... but I do not profess to be as "all-knowing" as God; thus, I can only ASK... and share with you what I "hear". But know this, for it is a GREAT truth:
Although "we" may think "we" have HIM "on trial"... in TRUTH, it is "we" who are on trial. For the accusation was made... against US. And you may THINK it does not include you, but I promise you... it does.
Revelations 12:10; Job 2:4; Micah 6:2; Psalm 43:1
Now, I long ago realized that I cannot answer to the "why's and wherefor's" of what man does... to man. In TRUTH, it makes NO sense to me; there is NO rhyme... or reason... for what we do to one another. But with regard the "why's and wherefor's" of God, His actions and inactions... I can ask... and receive reply... which I do and have... and which I almost always share with you. Ultimately, however, itis for HIM to answer, and although He is NOT, in truth, on trial... He will.
For those with ears to hear... the reply is available... now.
Psalm 4:4; Job 33:13-16; John 14:6; Matthew 17:5
As always, dear Lisa, I bid you the greatest of love and peace... to you and your entire household.
Your servant, "mom"... and a slave of Christ... all to time indefinite...
SJ
and what does "btttt", mean, Sweetheart? I see it here all the time, but have NO clue!
Also, I meant to respond to you all last night... but got a little "under the weather". Still feelin' a little "peaky"... so took off work to try an get my energy level up...
Ah, well... such is the flesh...
Peace, Girl!!
SJ
