Face/Pyramids on Mars! What do you think?

by qwerty 137 Replies latest jw friends

  • Tallyman
    Tallyman
    Just so I'll know, what exactly would be a credible reason to suppress any information regarding a "face" on mars?

    Keyword is credible.

    Six,

    this is an (in)"credible reason" :

    * http://www.enterprisemission.com/brooking.html

    of course, it is ONLY as Credible as you consider The Brookings Institute and its Scientific Findings, "credible".

    .
    (pssssst, the Brookings scientists were afraid that discovery of alien artifacts in our "backyard" would spOOk the Fundies of the world... now, YOU wouldn't be spOOked by such a discovery, would you Six?)
    .

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Oh please Tally,

    why does it matter who gets spooked? If they are 'in our backyard" we are all messy pants spooked. Every damn one of us, including every scientist and politician. That's a lot of messy undies to bury w/o someone saying something.

    I'll go take a look at the websites.

    Btw, I am reading "the demon haunted world" right now. Sagan sounded as skeptical as a person could possibly be about the mars face in that book.

  • ianao
    ianao
    Just so I'll know, what exactly would be a credible reason to suppress any information regarding a "face" on mars?

    Keyword is credible.

    Please, for my blood pressures sake, think before you answer.

    Interesting that you say "credible" there Six. "credible" by who's standards?

    Heeding the advice of the "Brookings Report" stating in an advisory to NASA/JPL that any evidence of an extraterestrial civilization/visitation/history should NOT be presented to the general public immediately as it would put civilization into chaos. (presumably). The idea as I recall, was to release the information SLOWLY to break the population into the idea gradually, to prevent sudden panic.

    I see no other reason for whitholding information obtained through tax-payer's dollars until congress presses the issue. Really! JPL told congress before they would release images as they came about. They then had to be PRESSURED into releasing the images they dumped recently. (Why the need to inquire about the images?)

    Even at first glance, the image ianao posted looks as if the pic on the left was not converted correctly for viewing with the square pixels of a computer screen, ie. a "raw" conversion of a frame of video.

    The pic on the left is was contrast-stretched RAW data, and is actually enhanced to show MORE detail than what showed on the evening news. It looks as if the image on the left was only enhanced for immediate brightness/contrast and released before further processing and projection.

    Here is another link regarding the image processing involved, and how it was mis-applied to the face, IMO.

    http://www.psrw.com/~markc/Articles/MGSreport/paper.html

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    So, I looked at that website and the scanned pages.

    Here is an interesting quote in the chairmans intro to that Brookings report:

    The report does not necessarily represent the views of the committee or any of its members. However, the committee believes that this effort, which is among the first to attempt to identify and categorize the long-range implications for American society of space exploration, should receive wide dissemination as a stimulus thinking and future decisionmaking in this important area.

    Since the report was submitted in 1961, I'm not sure exactly why you thought it relevant to this discussion at all. In any case, from the above quote, the authors of the report were all for open dialogue, even if they did make a couple of minor cautionary statements about how e.t. life might affect the phsyche of mankind. Only seems fair to wonder about that now doesn't it? Even scientific, if you will.

    If you can find a conspiracy, or even the birth of a conspiracy of silence in that report, Black Helicoptors really are following you around.

  • Tallyman
    Tallyman
    why does it matter who gets spooked?

    Six, babe, I'm with you on that!
    Why?, indeed.
    But tell THAT to the Guvmint who ordered the study from The Brookings Institution.

    I think it has more to do with "Control Of The Masses"...
    kinda like kult thinking,
    and I would dare say that there are government leaders who are every bit as Korrupt and Power Hungry and Lying-SOBs as those who "ruled" our favorite religion.

    Btw, I am reading "the demon haunted world" right now. Sagan sounded as skeptical as a person could possibly be about the mars face in that book.

    Keep reading. Sagan remained skeptical about the mars face. He and Hoagland had a years-long running battle (they were friends) about the origin of the mars face, but in the end, before Sagan Slipped Into That Void, he made a "concession" in his book, that at the very least, the mars face should be taken seriously by the scientific community, and then, after honest scientific inquiry, if it proved to be a natural formation OR an artificial construct... then let the chips fall where they may.

    .

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Well yeah Tally, of course that would be the way Sagan felt. He was after all, a scientist. That's pretty much the definition of how science is supposed to approach everything; "let the chips fall were they may".

  • Tallyman
    Tallyman
    Since the report was submitted in 1961, I'm not sure exactly why you thought it relevant to this discussion at all

    Oh please, Six

    Let's not be hypocritical here, now.

    We've used Watchtower literature pre-1961, here on this board to show "current" thinking... huh?
    "Old Light" which first appeared as "New Light", which has not been superceded by "New Light", is STILL "New Light"... or so the Kult Rules implicitly state.

    There's nothing out there superceding the Brookings Report.

    Sure, the US Government (and other governments) would withhold information from the public, and would be the Arbiter Of Deciding What's Good for everyone, and would spoonfeed the populace mushy babyfood to keep them pacified and more controllable... hey! ...whaddaya know ...JUST like The Kult does!

    If you can find a conspiracy, or even the birth of a conspiracy of silence in that report, Black Helicoptors really are following you around.

    thumpa-Thumpa-thumpa-Thumpa-thumpa-thump!

  • Tallyman
    Tallyman
    That's pretty much the definition of how science is supposed to approach everything

    Six,
    Key Phrase: "is supposed to"

    So, why the hey ain't they applied that to the Martian anomalies?

    .

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    I'm really not enough interested in the topic of "faces on Mars" to want
    to argue about whether these "faces" are real or not. I personally am
    convinced that they are nothing more than odd geological features. I'm
    convinced because of evidence such as is shown at the following URLs:

    Overall Jet Propulsion Lab Mars Global Explorer website:
    http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/index.html

    Detailed photos of "the face" taken in April 1998, alongside the old
    1976 Viking photos:
    http://mars3.jpl.nasa.gov:80/mgs/msss/camera/images/4_6_98_face_release/index.ht
    ml

    Index to lots of photos of the Cydonia region:
    http://mars3.jpl.nasa.gov:80/cgi-bin/AT-mgsindexsearch.cgi

    High resolution image of "the face" and link to extremely detailed NASA photos:
    http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/atlas/theface.html

    Commentary and comparison photos from a skeptic:
    http://mysteriesandmyths.com/Face.html

    Latest extremely high resolution photos from April 2000:
    http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/4_5_00_cydonia/index.html

    Many comparison photos:
    http://www.xtl-ak.com/cyface1.html

    Showing how tricks of light and shadow, combined with the human mind's
    natural penchant for finding orderly patterns, turns odd, blurry photos
    into "real" things:
    http://www.xtl-ak.com/cyface3.html

    This about wraps up my feelings about "the face":
    http://www.metaresearch.org/solar%20system/cydonia/face-art.asp

    For Tom:

    I took a look at the two websites you suggested, along with the photos
    they presented. In view of the above listed material, I simply don't
    agree with the claims of the authors. What I did see is a presentation
    of information that has been terribly skewed to make it appear that
    NASA is engaged in some kind of massive conspiracy -- something that
    always sets off major alarm bells in my mind. I noted that a photo was
    presented on one website that had obviously been selectively enhanced
    to emphasize what the author wanted. I also noted no particular
    attempts to deal with criticisms or comments by NASA that go against
    the authors' theories.

    The authors, and authors of similar websites claim that NASA has
    doctored the photos it has released to the public. However, I see no
    evidence for their claims and they have not presented anything to
    support their claim, except their own obviously doctored photos.
    Given this kind of bias, I'm not inclined to believe anything they
    say. If you or anyone else can present solid evidence that
    shows manipulation by NASA, I'm certainly willing to listen. I just
    have not yet seen it. To do this, one would have to deal with all of
    the photos shown on the above listed websites and prove that NASA or
    someone else doctored them.

    I consider all this to be similar to the way people like Charles Taze
    Russell, Piazzi Smyth, Joseph Seiss and thousands of other apparently
    sincere people jumped on the Pyramidology bandwagon in the late 1800s.
    Despite writing tens of thousands of pages claiming all sorts of
    semi-magical or divine properties for the Great Pyramid of Gizeh,
    we know today that all of it was a product of their imaginations.
    They 'saw' patterns where there were none.

    A couple of recent examples of supposedly solid "mysteries":

    Crop circles are claimed by many to be the product of extraterrestrial
    visitations. By about 1996(?) the actual perpetrators of the original
    hoaxes in England confessed and demonstrated how, in the middle of the
    night, they were able to produce amazing "structures" by flattening
    growing wheat or whatever in fields. What was apparently an amazing
    mystery turned out to have a quite normal cause. Amazingly, even
    after these guys demonstrated how they did it, some of the
    more rabid crop circle enthusiasts continue to claim that some of
    the crop circles must have been of extraterrestrial origin.
    They have too much emotional energy invested to let go.

    Then there's the famous "spontaneous human combustion" business.
    Many stories surfaced over the last several decades about humans
    literally bursting into flame and burning up completely. Several
    breathless documentaries were done "proving" that some sort of
    magical or demonic or extraterrestrial forces were involved. Great
    mysteries were implied, since no one could figure out why a human
    body would begin burning, and then continue to burn for hours until
    much of it was consumed. But as usual, the phenomenon turns out to
    have a rather mundane, but surprising explanation. It turns out
    that under unusual circumstances a person's clothing can catch
    fire, and burn just long enough to heat up the fat under the skin
    so that it begins melting and burning, and then a self-sustaining
    burning process begins. As long as nothing is disturbed, the body
    will simply burn up the fat, which melts and drips out and is
    wicked along from the inside to the outside by ash debris. When
    the fat is used up, the burning stops. This was demonstrated in
    a recent documentary presented on either The Learning Channel or
    The Discovery Channel, where an investigator took the carcass of
    a pig, covered it with clothing, doused it with perhaps a pint of
    gasoline and lit it. After a little over a minute the gasoline
    had completely burned up, but by then the fat under the skin had
    ignited in a self-sustaining burn. The carcass was still burning
    about seven hours later when the investigator manually put it out.

    When these findings were applied to several old mysterious
    cases of "spontaneous combustion", and the investigators knew
    what evidence to look for, everything fit into place. One woman
    who had burned up pretty completely appears to have suffered a
    heart attack while sitting in a chair and smoking. The cigarette
    dropped onto her clothes, started a fire, and then her skin and
    fat began burning. Her remains were found mostly burned up in
    the chair. Interestingly, a plastic-bodied TV set sitting high
    on a shelf partially melted from the heat accumulated near the
    ceiling of the closed room, just as happened in the experiment
    with the pig carcass.

    In another case, a woman's body was found burning a few meters off
    the side of a road. The police couldn't figure out how the body
    could burn like that, and for what appeared to be several hours by
    the time they found the body. They eventually found the murderer
    but he wouldn't tell them how he ignited the body after killing
    the woman. By the time police put out the fire, the body was
    about half consumed. Most likely the murderer doused the body with
    gasoline or alcohol and ignited it, which caused the body to burn
    just like the pig carcass. Mystery solved, but it took several years.

    I strongly recommend that people who want to find amazing explanations
    for what most likely has mundane explanations read a couple of books
    by Martin Gardner: Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science
    and The New Age: Notes from a Fringe Watcher. Gardner shows
    how many, many charlatans or sincerely self-deceived people have
    come up with all sorts of 'explanations' for things that have since
    been explained by quite ordinary means.

    AlanF

  • ianao
    ianao

    AlanF:

    I'm really not enough interested in the topic of "faces on Mars" to want to argue about whether these "faces" are real or not. I personally am convinced that they are nothing more than odd geological features.

    So what do you say to someone like me who has looked at the sites you've mentioned (and many others) and I STILL see a face? Should I re-adjust my thinking here? Do I lack intellect because I disagree? Now, when I see Van Flandern's "face" with a crown that was recently in the newspapers, and I look at it in the context image, it's clearly a trick of light and shadow and "convienient" cropping of images. Same story with Dolphins and hangers, and egyptian goddesses, etc.

    BUT

    I look at the cydonian "face", and lo! It be out in the open on flatland, staring me down from space! Even in the context of the viking images! It standeth out like a spike in me arse.

    Why did NASA tell us in the 70's that they shot the face later and the illusion went away, and lo! It be in another photo they didn't mention in the original press conference? And lo! Nasa cannot reproduce the image that shows it as a trick of light and shadow from the viking archives!

    NASA currently advocates possible running water on the surface of the planet. What is so hard to grasp about a civilization existing on the planet long ago? I don't understand the brain-lock here.

    AlanF, it's really a sad lot isn't it?

    I mean, in reality, if all of these "conspiracies" are true, then we will never know will we? Just like the ignorant rank and file witnesses who continue on in the traditions of men, we will continue to argue over information we've been spoon-fed. Perhaps though, we are ALL being silly, and the WT is God-directed and we are all just silly conspiracy theorists who are doing the will of satan himself.

    AlanF, just out of curiosity, do YOU believe man ever set foot on the moon? Although it has no baring to this thread, I would like to know your personal thoughts on this, as the "moon debunkers" are doing about as lousy a job debunking the moon as you are the "face". Just curious.

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