by setfreefinally 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
How can God see what I will do next year if somewhere between now and then I exercise my free will to lets say, jump off a building. I wouldn't even be here next year. In other words what actually hapens at all points in time. would actually be constantly changing. Am I not getting something here?
Why do you believe that God can see what you did last year, but not next year?
Euph;
If god can see the future, it means that you have to imagine time as a wedding video. The video has been 'made' as it can be 'seen' (god is out of time and can see all of time). It will be the same each time you look at it. Yet the people on that video were acting with freewill.
If reality is like that fine, but if reality is like that, how come god couldn't organise thigns better? It means he was aware of all the problems that would befall mankind beforehand.
It would be like the makers of the Ford Pinto (famous for exploding into flames if rear-ended) going ahead and making the Ford Pinto even though they knew people would suffer and die as a result.
Now, in law, Ford were found guilty as they knew about the problems their design had, but still didnl;t change the design.
I think therefore in your reality, we have a very good chance of a class-action sute against god. As he could see the future and designed us, all of the problems are down to him. He's a divine being, surely he could have designed humans so they still had freewill and didn;t have the design problems.
SO, in your reality god is either an inditable corporate executivem who released a faulty product onto the market knowing it would do damage OR god is limited in his power and incapable of designing humans better.
You are very welcome to your reality; I think I will now show god-like precognition, and predict at some point you will use the 'ah, but you're only human, how can you find fault with god, even if it sucks it must be the only possible way that it could happen otherwise god wouldn't have done it that way' argument.
If you are telling me this is the best of all possible worlds, then I think you let god get away with a lousy job
This does not mean that in such a scenario god has predetermined our actions and denied us freewill; it might be that
Why do you believe that God can see what you did last year, but not next year?
I guess because I believe it would take away free will and I find it hard to believe that with the messed up state of affairs on the earth that have nothing to do with man's sin (supposed reason for the condition on earth) that if God is that "all powerful" so as to be able to see what everyones future is to the minutest detail from the moment of "creation of time" that the universe would be so screwed up.
As you can see I haven't made up my mind completely just leaning strongly towards the above conclusion.
I appreciate your post Abaddon,
I can see you are thinking along the same lines as me. Not the class action suite but more along the lines of the Ford Mo Company.
So now we've gone from "can God exist outside time" to "why does He allow suffering"? I take it, then, that you guys have conceded that it's possible for him to exist outside time?
As to why He would allow suffering... I dunno. When I have the answer to that, I'll let you know.
Eu,
As to why He would allow suffering... I dunno. When I have the answer to that, I'll let you know.
That's the way I feel, I can only aproximate an answer. The book of Job leaves this question unsettled. I have Faith that it is a good reason and that it has love behind it. But since God is so much more inteligent that us that if he gave us the complete answer we would not understand it.
I feel Albert E. opened up our preception of time for us all and in the process, though indirectly: God at the same time for Christians.
God allowed His Son to suffer for the ultimate good of all creation.
couldn't it be possible that our temporary and momentary suffering also is allowed for our ultimate and eternal well-being?
Now,
God allowed His Son to suffer for the ultimate good of all creation. couldn't it be possible that our temporary and momentary suffering also is allowed for our ultimate and eternal well-being?
That's the way I veiw it. Pain is sometimes very helpful, it can even draw us closer to God. I often wonder what it would be like if God just acted like our servant and granted us everything we wanted, would we feel really drawn to him? What if every one lived forever and had everything they wanted, reguardless of whether they worshipped or loved God would that type of life really be good? What if every thing was so easy to do and you had the power to do anything well with, no training, no effort, everybody was an exact copy of yourself in regards to abilities, everybody did everything well with very little effort and with out any pain? I firmly beleive any thing the Creator allows or made possible is for an entirely good reason, but being we all have long way to go to see things the way he does, some of us judge Him harshly.
Einstein once said: "When forced to summarize the general theory of relativity in one sentence: Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter."
You cannot separate time, the question could be refraised to "can God exist in our universe?"
Can God be at two different places at the same time? ("at the same time" in newtonian relativity) If yes, God must be outside of time, if no, God would be in our universe and would have been dicovered, measured and captured long time ago. At least he wouldn't be the God that the bible speaks about.
What if every thing was so easy to do and you had the power to do anything well with, no training, no effort
Kind of like God then eh?
