by refiners fire 34 Replies latest jw friends
Eup. There was something of a slugfest here a few months back about something Bill Bowen allegedly said about Ray Franz. Jim Penton and Carl Olof Jonson ended up posting on here thumping Bowens ear.
I think if you PMd "RevMalk" (above) he would have more idea what were the main threads in the discussion than I would.
Ex-Jws do share a common heritage - we were all screwed by the WBTS.
However, once we wake up and smell what we were shoveling we become INDIVIDUALS with all that is implied by that status.
Unity - what does that mean? We are united in the common goal of exposing the WBTS for what it is... but how we do that and what we believe about things is subject to a million axioms of each individual being.
The WBTS kept unity by crushing dissent unmercifully, killing individuality, demonizing and destroying anything that did not conform to the stated path.
Disunity? It means we can share differing views.
Thank God for it.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/43702/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/42831/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/42651/1.ashx
There you go Eup. That should clue you up a bit at least.
Ballistic. I see you agree with me. I find you very agreeable. lol
I am not ready to "follow" anyone's lead in many matters, certainly not in accepting that I should feel I should try to bring down the WTS. I also don't believe in a lot of other religions, and their former members are sometimes just as vehemently opposed as some exjws. The point I am wandering towards is, sometimes you have to let it go. I think that those who have a legal or moral case against them should pursue it by all means. Those who committed crimes such as molestation, stealing, etc, should be punished to the full extent of the law. If I were a victim, I would do everything I could to see the individuals who committed the crimes brought to justice. But to say that I have to participate in bringing down the entire religion goes way beyond what I feel is needed. I hate it, but that's my feeling, and there are many people within who love it, who are happy with it, and that's their feeling. I have said I wish my family (who are still in) would see the light, but that presumes they would reach the same conclusions that I did, and really, there is no guarantee of that. It's just something I would like to see.
Just my opinion, and since I left the Borg, I am free to have one. So is everyone else.
Happyout
Thanks for the links, RF! I had found Penton and COJ's posts through their profiles, but those turned up some more info that I hadn't found.
Refiner
I agree totally w you.
SS
Welcome to the free world where disunity is allowed and individual thought can exist and it can be freely criticized.
I have no desire to ever be part of group-think group again - even if it is a rallying call against a bad cause. I will gladly lend (and have in the past) financial or intellectual support to causes I believe in but I cannot stand idly by and be consumed into a collective. Call it selfish (I subscribe to the virtue of selfishness) but to me, my individual freedom is greater than any cause. If a cause is enhanced by me exercising my freedom and lending some support to the cause - that's fine. The relative perspective needs to be maintained though.
Jack
Exercising of that free will and individualism here on jwd, when in contrast with the majority is a real lesson in the study of group think.
It's ok to say your independent, a free thinker, but when and if you make a stand against the wind of majority think, you better be prepared for the ole KH cold shoulder.
It is quite amusing really, to see the very ones who yell and scream the most about the wtbs abuse......participate in abusing those who do not comply to their whims or idea of whats right/wrong.
Fluff posts are the 'pat on the back' many here on jwd offer to those who are 'thinking' properly.
I actually imbibe in the practice myself......shit Iam human.
Danny
What can we say? People are people!
In any large group you'll get nice people and nasty people, helpful ones and not-so-helpfule ones, a whole range.
I don't think we could have any 'enforced unity' even if we wanted to and I don't think it would be a good idea anyway - it is just too WTS !
Our strength is our diversity and being able to come together and share a mix of opinions and ideas. People do get together to work on projects and accomplish things and often people do come together at such times.
Being such a big mix of people also helps others because there is bound to be someone similar to yourself who has been through similar things (of course the downside is there is bound to be someone who annoys the hell out of you too !)
Apostates: United we prayed, Disunited we stand.
It's ok to say your independent, a free thinker, but when and if you make a stand against the wind of majority think, you better be prepared for the ole KH cold shoulder.
It has less to do with the KH and more to do with being human.
Are people here really against shunning? I don't think so--I believe that people just don't like being told who they should shun. Ah, the sweet freedom of shunning who we want to. No KH or elders are needed for that to happen.
