Alan, thanks for the interesting 'history'. I had never really known how the various boards got their start or how things 'evolved' if you will.
For IW: Musings on Unity, Former Posters, ex-JW DB's
by AlanF 20 Replies latest jw friends
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Uzzah
Alan:
That would have been a better eulogy than an accurate history. The difference being, in an eulogy you highlight the positives and gloss over any mistakes or bad actions. Accurate history requires an honest evaluation of all actions taken by the parties. In your comments you failed to acknowledge the negatives that some of the parties caused. From revealing personal information, posting personal pictures of posters who at the time desired anonymity, to the active role some of them played in the 'destruction' of H20. And yes, FD2 and Rick also share in the blame for its demise.
I give you full points for trying to emphasize the positive however for those unfamiliar with the history, it is not a fair assessment of the duplicious roles people such as Kent has played over the years. You are in a better position to tell the history than I having been around longer on these boards than myself by about 2 years.
From my perspective it does ultimately boil down to egos. That of some participants and that of the board administrators. Initially it is the ego of the participant that gets bruised when a moderator takes action so they retaliate. If allowed, the board can become themed about moderation as opposed to exjw issues. Eventually, even the most balanced of hosts' (ie Simon) ego says enough, I do not have to continue being a doormat for this person and more drastic action is taken and the cycle escalates until finally the participant storms off in a huff or is told to leave.
The ironic part is that when these ones leave and either start or continue their own forums, they end up doing exactly what they complained about other admins doing to them. For example despite all of Kent's blustering about censorship and moderation, he is now as arbitrary about his actions at WT Observer as was Simon or the mods at H20. Now email and PR Capone as a moderator have their site and have already had to censor posters. One can only hope that after getting a taste of the difficulties of actually running a large EXJW board they might have a little more forgiveness or empathy for the likes of Simon or any other who dare take on that role.
I am not trying to re-open past wounds with this post but simply trying to help those unfamiliar with the history to see a wider picture. Also to show that IMO naive ideals of unity are near impossible considering the very strong personalities involved. But completely agree with some of the comments that such unity is not really a necessary thing. Hell we aren't trying or even claiming to be a united brotherhood of gods chosen people...thank gawd for that! There is much wisdom to be found in diversity as well as in adversity.
Uzzah - who ultimately is happy to be just an occasional poster
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waiting
Staying in The Middle here...........good counter-post, Uzzah.
I was going to bring up the ego part too..............but I always bring up the Male Ego thing. And it refers to women too....I suppose.
There were many issues - on and off this forum.
waiting
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hillary_step
Hello,
An interesting glimpse into XJW Internet history Alan thanks and I largely agree with the sentiments of your post.
On the subject of the vagaries of personality, another thing worthy of remembrance is that when we were JW's we met many JW's that we liked and that were good people at heart, we also met many whom we were ambivalent toward and who were seldom allowed into the inner sanctum of our real lives, we also met many who were jealous, spiteful, ambitious and graceless.
A mix of these people are now XJW’s and reflect the same tendencies that they did when the were JW’s. The difference is as XJW’s there are no authoritative eyes watching us, just the eyes of our own conscience and size of our own heart. Subsequently, we cannot blame the WTS for how we treat people *now*. Far too many of us are quick to judge, slow to apologize, arrogant and overly-convinced of our own importance, and despite an ability that some have to intelligently write good material, or run XJW Websites, this conspires makes us very human! It should also serve to monitor the way that we criticize others for fear that we will one day become victims of our own standards.
Simon is inclined to be inconsistent on occasion, in this he has much in common with the rest of the human race, thank God. I would not want an inconsistent person doing micro-surgery on my brain, but I would expect it to occur every now and again in an Internet disussion forum. Often removing ourselves from an arena of conflict is wiser than watching ourselves removed. As Spike Milligan once wrote, "The boy stood on the burning deck……bloody idiot!".
HS
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onacruse
In many ways, I feel that I have a certain advantage in being new to all this Internet stuff. As most here know, this board is the very first one I'd ever joined, of any kind (not even e-bay LOL). I've visited a couple of others since then, but this is my home.
As with any "family," not knowing the "dirt" on somebody makes it much easier for me to accept them as is; a clean slate, no preconceptions. And it is my nature anyway to do just that: I attribute honesty until dishonesty is shown, I attribute good motive until bad motive is shown, I anticipate civility until discourtesy is shown. In some ways I'm almost naive in that way. Now, perhaps many who posted on these other forums over the years have since mellowed, and as a result I'd be unaware of that "rough" side of their character. And that's fine with me; we all change, so why take the stance "I knew you over at such-and-such a board, and you were a jerk, and I'll never forget that!"? Unless, of course, that person continues to be a jerk.
With that in mind I recall what Alan recently pointed out on another thread, that this forum is a public db, not a private conversation. The parameters for public discussions (of all kinds) are, to my knowledge, generally considered to be more stringent than for private communications. You have every liberty to send me an e-mail and call me a flaming idiot (insert other expressions here ), and by so doing you will have laid out very clearly what kind of relationship we'll have. But to say the same thing in a public forum, for any reason, breaches the protocols of civilized and courteous repartee, imo.
So, to be blunt about it, I have relatively little interest what's happened on past db's. It's how people treat me and my friends now, here, that matters.
Craig
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jst2laws
Alan and Simon, I appreciate the history Alan. I wish you or someone would write even more, perhaps a book on the subject. I started lurking in 1999 while an elder and admit I was shocked at the atmosphere on H2O. I could hardly believe the Rick was hosting such a harsh discussion board and yet attending meetings. The approach of Norm, Kent, Janh, and Farkel was what kept me lurking instead of posting. I left many times thinking that's just like we are told the 'apostates' are like. But the material presented, the arguments, were GOOD and kept bringing me back to learn. I remember the terrible fights between Rick and the raucous group mentioned above. It was over Moderators and deleted posts. Sounds familiar. Then Englishman (wasn't it you) came on one day and said "I've found a wonderful board" and 'there are no moderators'. The H2O theater emptied as if someone had yelled "fire". Two years later this board does not resemble in any way the rowdy atmosphere of H2O. But not so much because of moderators or lack of them. I think we exjws have evolved, just as Alan has described the history and evolution of the online exjws. Simon said:
My opinion though is that personal stories and social support are more powerful than doctrinal essays
That is the issue. The exjws, at least those here, are not as interested in hard debates and WT expose as they are in support and a community to help them exit and adjust. Remember, not long ago, when those who posted "fluff" were frowned upon? This is a world wide Pub now, thanks in part to Englishman. Most of us are here to visit, socialize, to support and receive support. So it is not so much about Simon, or Farkel (who almost made the change as Alanf has) or the Norwegians, but it is about us and what we want and need. Simon is providing what we need NOW, and doing what he can to keep it that way. Some still want an occasional brawl and get put in the back yard when they get too rowdy. This is for the peace of the rest of the household. Maybe he occasionally over reacts. He knows this. Maybe if we accept that in the last two years the exjw community has grown and a great many have found a home here providing what they need, we can be more patient with an occasional wrap on the knuckles when we get impatient with each other and out of line. WE are part of something new and wonderful here. That said, I do miss the debates and the hot exposes, and Farkel welcomed me like a pussy cat when I finally started posting. His recent harshness with others may have been something else he was going through. I hope he comes back and socializes some day. Jst2laws
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LDH
Credit where credit is due.
Don't forget Obie Fernandez' site, WitNet. (Used to be at witnesses.net, I think).
I made some awesome friendships there;WitNet had a ton of users.
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Balsam
Hi,
I have been reading on the internet about JW now for about 3 years. While I was an active JW I did a little reading at various web-wites back in 1999. But you know I did not understand most of what they were talking about. I was so poorly informed about Russell, or Rutherford, and the multitude of changes the WTS had made over the years, it left me scratching my head. But I persevered reading, and gradually began to connect the lines. I am grateful that many ex-JW have had the courage to get all this information online for the world to see. At the time I thought it was terrible lies, but in time I found through reasearch, and my own person experiences it was very true.
Thanks too all of you who post, create web-site like AJWRB.org, silentlambs. org. if it hadn't been for all of the JW sites out there I would have never known the truth about the truth.
Sincerely,
Balsam aka Ruth
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Englishman
It's a sad fact of life that often the most academically talented amongst us turn out to be somewhat less emotionally mature than their followers. Consequently, fans of these geniuses are often disillusioned at their inability to interact with others in what we would consider to be a normal manner.
I'm not pointing a finger at anyone here, this is just a general observation that includes football players, film stars and people with a flair for writing. It's almost as though their academic development has been at the cost of their emotional development.
Englishman.
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teejay
For those who think ill of such people as I've mentioned in this post, you may not entirely know what you're talking about, since you only have a limited picture of them. -- AlanF
Very good point.
It applies, not just for the Three Norwegians, but for everyone who posts here: Unless we've actually spent time in the company of someone or perhaps conversed with them in some form out here in the real world, can it be said that we really know someone? Other wise, all we have are perceptions based on what we read off the screen. Fortunately, most of the time those perceptions are good.