Where is the evidence

by KGB 90 Replies latest jw friends

Dansk

KGB,
I believe James (JT) made an excellent post and clarified why many of us question the Bible today! I also believe Bradley’s comments to be equally excellent and worthy of reiterating:
I think you need to explain what you are trying to get across better. Do you mean that people (such as myself) who do not believe the Bible to be infallible also do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God? If so, then you are correct. Many people, through study and much investigation, have come to the conclusion that the Bible is grossly inaccurate about many things. If it is supposed to be God's word and it is filled with inaccuracies and morally repugnant accounts and teachings the logical conclusion would be that the supposed "God" of the Bible is as made up as any other divinity in religions such as Islam, Hinduism and Zoarostrianism. Can anyone prove this? No. It is not possible to prove anything with absolute certainty. Such is not the scientific method.
Please also note that while I stand by my belief that Jehovah or Yahweh does not exist that doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. The two are entirely different. One can research and determine where Yahweh came from, one cannot prove God exists or doesn’t exist.
I no longer consider myself Christian and refer you back to both James’ and Bradley’s comments for the reasons why. I should also like to point to two comments of yours which highlight a not untypical "Christian" stance:
What do we do to a Bug ? We smash it !!!
YOU might smash it. I’d let it go! You see, KGB, all life is sacred to me. Should I kill a bug because it is just a bug? Shame on you. If you believe in God then respect his creation!
You also said:
if there is a GOD then I know that by following his laws and keeping my faith in him I will reap the benefit he has promised and I prefer to think that there is a life beyond this one and the thought of everlasting destruction scares the hell right out of me
Herein lies the whole crux of the matter. Your beliefs are based on fear. Mine are not!
Dear Hooberus:
It is evident you are a biblical apologist so nothing any of us who question the Bible's authenticity says is going to make the slightest difference to your belief in its contents as being sacrosanct. Re the following:
Dansk said: I believe I have been able to prove in other posts that much contained in scripture is erroneous or a downright lie.
To which you replied:
What other posts?
I'm sure you've seen the following before, but feel free to read them again. But please, I respectfully ask that if you have any comments to make, do not use the Bible as your "evidence". I would have a lot more respect for you if you would direct me to outside historical documents and artefacts to prove your case.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/55125/802693/post.ashx#802693
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/55036/800629/post.ashx#800629
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/54688/793928/post.ashx#793928
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/54769/795145/post.ashx#795145
Dansk
drwtsn32

This Scripture answers the above question:
That is hardly a satisfying answer (to me), but I don't have faith in the bible.
drwtsn32

Do you believe in infinity? Can you describe it? Where does it begin?

IW, this does bring up an interesting line of thought. I do not believe in infinite causality. I think *something* must have been there at the "beginning" that didn't require something else to produce it. The question is, does it seem more likely that this "something" was infinitely complex or infinitely simple?
drwtsn32

I want to know why you who were familiar with bible teachings for so many years, you went around and taught others about the bible by knocking on doors but now most of you have no faith in God, in Jesus and in church.

KGB, great question. In my case when I started to question the WTS I didn't just stop there. I started to question even the most fundamental beliefs in Christianity: the inspiration of the bible... even the existence of God. What it boiled down to is the "proofs" JWs for the inspiration of the bible are not impressive at all. First, the bible is not always scientifically accurate. Second, it is much more likely that the "prophecies" were adjusted later to fit history (and there's no way to prove they were not adjusted). Third, the book is not completely harmonious and contradicts itself all over the place.
With regards to the belief in God... I was just honest with myself and realized that I had never objectively felt/seen/witnessed God's presence in my life. It was much more likely that all of God's blessings on me were merely psychological.
My wife is studying very ancient religions and it is amazing how Christianity "borrowed" so many concepts from older religions. That too makes it even harder for me to imagine Christianity is any more special than all the other religions of the world.
Dansk

drwtsn32
My wife is studying very ancient religions and it is amazing how Christianity "borrowed" so many concepts from older religions. That too makes it even harder for me to imagine Christianity is any more special than all the other religions of the world.
In a nutshell! Excellent!
Dansk
Abaddon

KGB: I am quite happy to say that the Bible easily disproves the existance of the entity that people claimn inspired it, or at least proves that such an entity did not inspire the Bible.
Please realise that I am not saying that ther is no god; that is impossible to prove for one thing.
I am saying that the Bible was either written by men, or that the creator and author of the book asks humans to do things they were not designed for.
The Bible mainly supports monogamy. A study of human sexual biology show that humans do not have the characteristics of sexual biology that would be expected of a creature that was intenbded to be mongamous.
The Bible condemns homosexuality. It is pretty well established that whatever role nurture (environment) plays in fixing a person's sexual oriontation, their nature (genetics) is a very important in determining a person's sexuality.
It would seem that the Bible god either expects us to act contrary to our created nature (which is just silly), and would condemn some people on account of their genes (which is unfair), or that the Bible god did not inspire the Bible and may well not exist.
seedy3

You know, if this is an all knowing, all present, all powerful god, Why was this crap not stopped in the garden of eden? I'm sorry but having to prove to the angels is no excuse. He has allowed BILLIONS of people to go to hell, just to prove to the angels (or whom ever else) that in the end he can destroy everything. That really is not logical reasoning. If you make a model and it has a fault you start over, if mankind was faulted, you start before it goes into mass production and have to make a recall.
It's stupid, if he is all knowing why didn't he know Adam would sin against him, or why did he allow the devil to temp the first couple, evidently he didn't know! So now we know he is not all knowing, is he all present, well if so he would have been present when the temping took place, and wasn't so he is not all present. What about all powerful? Well I have yet to see him make any effort to do anything even lift a symbolic finger to help those in need and those in distress, he uses his lesser human creations to do his dirty work. It's pretty sad to be a God that relies on some creation with no power abilities to do something that he could do with just a thought.
Sorry not to offend any of you here, but this is my beliefs he is not any more real then Zeus, Mithras or El, he is nonexistant
Seedy
hooberus

Dansk said:
I'm sure you've seen the following before, but feel free to read them again. But please, I respectfully ask that if you have any comments to make, do not use the Bible as your "evidence". I would have a lot more respect for you if you would direct me to outside historical documents and artefacts to prove your case.

Much of my posts (in response to yours) do contain outside historical evidence.
example:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/54769/1.ashx
Even on this thread I used the outside of evidence of nature in addition to the Bible.
AwakenedAndFree

"our marvelous body" Avengers said:" Do you mean Siamese twins, babies born with two heads, heart defects, braintumors, schizophrenia, Parkinsons disease."

Avengers said:"Is that enough proof that God doesn't exist or do you need more?"

Dear Avengers,
The reference I made describing the human body as a marvelous creation of God is true. I'am referring to the first perfect human pair that Jehovah God designed and created, Adam and Eve, and as well in general our bodies, we are not perfect, but our bodies do wanders - It is a marvel, in my opinion, nothing short than a miracle, how our bodies function!
The first human pair, Adam and Eve, were created perfectly to live here on this earth eternally. They did enjoy perfect-life here on earth for awhile. The benefits they enjoyed during their devinely perfect human existence was a very close relantionship with Jehovah God - Adam and Eve worked in harmony with God: They applied devine standards, they applied God's supreme moral laws as well they possessed a PERFECT human body that functioned perfectely. As well they enjoyed life in PARADISE.
Something terrible happened: They both sinned against Jehovah God. They lost the perfect bond of union they enjoyed with their Creator. Their sin was accquired through disobidience. As a result of their sin, all mankind inherited imperfection: We, humans, are all imperfect. Our human bodies are full of anomalies: congenital malformations and mental disorders are examples of these.Our bodies and minds deteorate, age and die.
As imperfect in physical body and mind as we may be, I look at the human body as a miracle from God. It exels any human-built machine!
It is Jehovah God's promise to restore mankind to perfection, as well He gives the gift of everlasting life to those who love HIM and His Son Jesus Christ.
JOHN 3:16:"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only- begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."
Christian Love,
AAF
seedy3

Hooberus,
I read the thread you posted @ http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/54769/1.ashx I find right away a fault with the line of reasoning this person used. He is tieing together the Iranian/Persian Mithra, with the Roman Mithras, as well as Indian Mitra. Although they have a relationship in the same way the Christianity and Islam have a tie, but they are not the same god any more then the Allah of Islam or the YHWH of Judeo/christian religons are the same. So for him to make the comment that Mithra was born from a Rock is very incorrect, it was the roman god Mithras, not the Iranian Mithra. So based on the account that this part in totally incorrect, it discounts the entire statement. Mitra from Indian lore is the basis for the other two gods, yes, but again Zoroaster, when he came into the light, he was dertermined to make the worship pure once again as it should be, so he made quite a few changes in the beleif system, much as Mohamad did to christianity and judiesm to creat a newer religon from old parts. The Roman God then again was a sprout off of this, so they evoloved into new religons and new gods, they didn't remain the same god.
Seedy

Where is the evidence

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