Quesions about Jehovah

by the real truth 54 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    As has been mentioned before on this site, the problem is with the ambiguity of the NT. The NT is a convoluted text that can play anyone's fiddle, if they choose a one note tune!

    But, when all of Jesus' words are taken as a whole, he does put himself below the Father. When religionists give the excuse that he did so because he was a human at the time they are simply trying to put words in his mouth. He never qualified his words as only applying to his human existence.

    This trinity stuff gets tiring real fast, it is stupid. The Bible taken as a whole does not support it.

    IW

  • the real truth
    the real truth

    Libra Spirit, Answer my question! Is Jesus a lesser true God or a lesser false God? This isn't a trivial matter since there is only one God. Don't make it seem small.

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Neither. Jesus is dead. Get over it.

    Expatbrit

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    City Fan:

    The context shows the opposite, that they are lesser gods, sons of the Most High Elyon.

    No, it really doesn't. Not unless you are reading it with an agenda.

    The psalm is speaking of those who "judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked," and who should "Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." It seems clear to me that these are human judges and rulers, who are behaving in an autocratic manner and are not rendering real justice as they should. Because of their self-exaltation, God refers to them sarcastically as "gods" (the NIV actually puts the word "gods" inside quotation marks), not because they actually are gods, but because they have arrogated godlike status to themselves. In quoting these verses at John 10:34, Jesus also applies the text to humans, not to members of some pantheon.

    The idea that God is presiding over a heavenly court is an image that is used numerous times throughout scripture and carries the image of his rendering of justice. It need not imply that the ones being judged are themselves necessarily heavenly beings. For this psalm to carry the interpretation you suggest would place it at odds with the rest of the Bible. Doesn't it make more sense to understand the religion of the Hebrews consistently?

    This verse is an Elohist passage from the northern Israelite tribes.

    The superscription of the Psalm attributes it to Asaph, who was a Levite serving at the Temple. Why would you think that it came from another source?

    El was viewed as the supreme God and Most High or El Elyon. He gave the nations to his sons as an inheritance so that each nation had its own god, This can be seen from an old passage in Deutoronomy 32:8,9:

    8: When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
    9: For the LORD's (Yahweh’s) portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

    I'm curious what translation you are citing. I just did a cursory review of a half-dozen Bible translations that I had at hand, and all of them except one (Byington's) translated the end of verse 8 as 'children or sons of Israel', not "sons of God". Without actually researching it (I'm supposed to be working now ), I'd guess that "sons of God" may be a less reliable reading in a minority of texts which has been rejected by the majority of translators. Among the translations that used "Israel" rather than "God" were the King James, NIV, NASB, Amplified Bible, and even the NWT. All of which (except for the NWT) I would regard as being more reliable than Byington's translation. Additionally, the Zondervan NIV Exhaustive Concordance lists the root word in verse 8 as yisra'el.

    Even if the phrase "sons of God" was correct, it could easily refer to the nation of Israel rather than some group of miscellaneous gods in the heavens, and such a reading would clearly be in better harmony with the rest of the Pentateuch.

    Again, taking Deuteronomy 32:8,9 in context, we find a description of God's deliverance of Israel from Egypt. He 'divided mankind' and 'set boundaries for the people' in the sense of making a place for His people among the other nations. The other nations had to yield their place in favor of Israel, because the Israelites were God's favored people.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    Why do my comments always format strangely when I use the Quote feature?

    peacefulpete:

    I'll have to get back to you on Matthew 28. Since I hadn't heard that particular argument before, I'll have to do some research, and as I said above, I'm supposed to be working now.

  • Hamas
    Hamas

    Hi real truth , welcome.

    If you are looking for the real truth, you will be searching all your life. What is truth ? Who knows ? Can we be sure we have truth ?

    The Witnesses say they have the truth, yet they have many floors to their doctrine. John 1:1 is one of them.

    Use what is wise for you ; there may be a Bible in you, or a Quran. Whatever is good for you, use it. The Watchtower is a cult, good for nothing or nobody.

    May you find peace, my friend.

  • the real truth
    the real truth

    Hamas, thank you. I'm sorry I'm being so annoying, but not one Jehovah's Witness has given me a straight forward answer. I don't care if Jesus is dead or not, but the NWT says he is a God. Just about everyone that has tried to answer my question except for Hamas has rambeled on about meaningless stuff. I'm gonna ask this question one more time for the Jehovah's Witnesses. Is Jesus a true God or a false God? If he is a "lesser" God, is he a lesser true God or a lesser false God?? Please, either answer me with "he is a true God" or "he is a false God." I don't want you to ramble on about stuff that doesn't have to do with the question. If you Jehovah's Witnesses truely knew your faith, you could give me a straightforward answer of "he is a true God" or "he is a false God"

  • Hamas
    Hamas

    Thats ok, real truth.

    I understand your frustrations. However, I must tell you, 99 per cent of us here are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses ! We, as a whole, have managed to leave the Organization known as Jehovahs Witnesses.

    However, if you want to know the answer to this question, the Witnesses will say that he is 'a god' , not 'the God'.

    Hope that answers your question, my friend.

  • amac
    amac
    I don't want you to ramble on about stuff that doesn't have to do with the question.

    Of course not, that's because you are trying to use a trick question to prove a nonpoint. You can't base a conclusion on a 1500 page book with one sentence. For fun's sake let's say I answer your question with "he is a True God." But if I was to ask you, at John 14:28, Jesus says the Father is greater than he is, is the father greater than Jesus?

    Neither one ultimately proves either side of the argument. In fact, the entire Bible doesn't prove one argument against the other, so give it up. Quit assuming you know the truth and need to enlighten others and accept the fact that none of us have anything more than personal opinion.

  • cowhand
    cowhand

    Hi realtruth

    If you're looking for the facts you won't find them.

    "The Father is greater than I"

    "My Lord and my God" - Thomas on putting his hand in Jesus' side.

    You now know as much as the rest of us, WTS included.

    Otherwise you can play around with translations. They all bear the imprint of the translators prejudices and we haven't even started on the establishment of the NT canon or who may have "improved" the text before it made it into the public domain.

    As for a god who has nothing better to do than get uptight about such trivia...........

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