Logic Lures Them in, Emotions Keep them In

by jgnat 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    You say other religions offer a way of life and a life style ... thus the difference. Being a JW IS a way of life AND a life style. It may seem subtle but there IS a vast difference.

    What? Lots of other religions affect not only the way of life but the lifestyle too. You think the WTS is the only non-smoking religion out there? I think, instead, that you meant “Being a JW is THE way of life and THE ONLY lifestyle.” THAT would be an accurate reflection of the JW mindset. And it would be in error.

    You are welcome to speak up but it won't affect them in the slightest so why get in such a dither?

    I was dithering? I was pretty sure my language is cool, direct, and level-headed. Also, I have plenty of evidence that my speaking up does make a difference. Such as our friend Gambit here.

    As long as you have family 'in' why not respect their mentality and keep your arguments involved only with them. They deserve to know your true feelings or it's built on a false basis.

    I do respect my JW honey, yes I do (I can hardly believe I am defending my relationship with a stranger). He does know my true feelings, and has wisely chosen to veer away from controversial subjects. After all, he would not want to be guilty of apostate thinking.

    You call this a JW discussion page but in fact the true title is 'Forum for Jehovah's Witnesses" so it's already misleading. The name implies it is a page FOR JWs, not a place to bash them.

    I thought I covered this already, in Do we Suck in JW’s Unawares?

    Frankly, NW, your defense sounds a little shrill, considering you are not “good enough” for the WTS either.

    But we simply could not talk about it while we where in. We were not supposed to even think about it. So now we talk about it. We let out years of repressed thoughts and feelings here, with friends.

    LisaBoBeesa, I can so relate. On first finding this board, I typed like a demon. All these suppressed thoughts bursting for expression. This site saved my sanity.

    Ain’t it great to have a voice, Big Tex? An intelligent, sensitive man like you, and there is no forum in the WT organization where you can speak your mind.

    Welcome, gambit! I look forward to the dam bursting! Personal stories are still my all-time favorite. Anger is the first step in overcoming loss. Other emotions will follow. This board is a pretty safe place to vent it all, amongst people who understand. Question for Northern Girl. Howcome the WTS does not include personal testimonies in their meetings (I mean, ones that have not been edited by the writing department)?

    Scully! Yeah. Don’t go broadcasting your “true feelings” on the internet! Oo, oo. You might offend the organization! Go spouting off to JW family and friends so they know better than to talk to you ever again! And, Heavens to Betsy, don’t go speaking that negative talk down at the hall. You might be appropriately branded Apostate and your doorpost marked. “Keep on walking, folks, nothing to see here.” Why is the WTS so dead-set on muzzling all opposition? Jesus let the Pharisees speak. He silenced them with his wise words.

  • northern girl
    northern girl

    jgnat:

    This is the second time I'll be writing my reply ... the last one just dissapeared.

    Don't tell me what the mindset is for JWs. You've never been one so how are you an expert?

    Evidence of your dither is that you are explaining your personal relationship here on this site.

    As for your friend Gambit ... he has my permission to post my PMs here.

    If I sound shrill ... it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

    How do you know if the society allows personal testimonies ... thought you were never involved?

    northern girl.

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    Don't tell me what the mindset is for JWs. You've never been one so how are you an expert?

    Last time I checked, WTS literature is publicly available. Are you suggesting that JW’s believe that there is any other commendable lifestyle besides their own? If I am wrong, I welcome any XJW here to correct me.

    Evidence of your dither is that you are explaining your personal relationship here on this site.

    Hey, you asked. You suggested, in fact, that I have a false relationship. A fairly large assumption, I would say.

    Main Entry: 1dith·er Pronunciation: 'di-[th]&r Function: intransitive verb

    Inflected Form(s): dith·ered; dith·er·ing /-[th](&-)ri[ng]/ Etymology: Middle English didderen Date: 15th century

    1 : SHIVER, TREMBLE 2 : to act nervously or indecisively : VACILLATE

    (Mirriam Webster) I am trembling in my boots.

    How do you know if the society allows personal testimonies ... thought you were never involved?

    Last time I checked, Kingdom Halls are open assemblies, Everyone Welcome.

  • northern girl
    northern girl

    Sooooo ... you've been snooping in Kingdom Halls. Thought that would be the LAST place we'd find you ... having your own loving religion and all.

    Sounds like you've done your share of reading their literature too. Don't ever confuse that with KNOWING the mindset of JWs. You've got a long way to go ...

    northern girl.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Genesis 2:24

  • gambit
    gambit

    NG :: I won't post or refer to PM's in a forum. That's not my style. I won't pass PM's on in another PM. I believe the P stands for Private... I'm not into bashing or discounting anyone's ideas or direction in life. I have enough of my own problems... I don't know anyone here, and just posted for the 1st time today... You know, I probably feel the same way you do about some of the posts here. In some ways, some of the language has a tone of "elitist", as if being an exJW gives them entitlement. But I find those readings significant... Everytime I read something that the tone is such (in my mind), I review MYSELF and find some pretty tough feelings !!! It says alot when the feelings of anger, hurt, and betrayal are so great that one would DEDICATE themselves to actively defending these feelings... but I would argue... any DEFENSE of feelings is dithering, regardless of which side of the fence your currently standing... Trusting your feelings requires no defense...

    Like I said, I have HUGE trust issues... I am trying to get past that so I don't have to defend my own feelings, but rather, be open to sharing them and exploring mine and others... non-defensively. If you don't mind, I will dig up old wounds... You see, we all fantasize and dream... at some point in life, (childhood, adolescence, marriage, mid-life), adolescence for me, I had imaginations of gay sex... what would it feel like? What does a women feel when she is with a man? Are these not legitimate, earth-shattering questions (arguably feelings at that age) that need answers and/or validation... not strict adherence to some "moral, righteous code" that, unless followed, will cause me to be outcast from family, friends, and, even eternal life. As adults, it's easy to deny the fact that you had these "immoral" thoughts (again, arguably feelings)... so what is the defense... ah... everyone who verbalized and/or expresses these feelings shall be considered immoral ! Ah... NG... I knew there was a reason I read all your posts... I better stop while I'm ahead... Follow your heart !

    jgnat :: Thanks for including me so rapidly in the "friend" category . Yes, this thread made a difference, and so did your emtional appeal. I just wrote another page or so, then realized it had nothing to do with this thread... so if you, or anyone else for that matter, has a suggestion for which forum to do my initial bleeding in, please PM...

    Gambit

  • northern girl
    northern girl

    Gambit ... what a breath of fresh air ... you WILL NOT post PMs ... even WITH my permission. I like you already ...

    northern girl.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    So is that what this board is all about? To raise objections and draw attention to the 'faults' of JWs?

    I am not being argumentative ... I'd like to know.

    This board started out as a board for Jehovah's Witnesses. If you read through some posts in the year 2000, it is all from a Witness standpoint. Now it has become a board for support and recovery from negative experiences with the Witnesses. For many here, and those who have moved on, this board and the people here have been a godsend.

    I'm just going to talk about what I've gotten out of this board. I stopped going to meetings in 1989 due in large part to the two witness rule the Society has regarding child abuse. I was told I was the only one who had a problem, that I was the only one complaining. I was told my problems with my incestuous JW family was my fault. And I believed that for several years afterward. I believed that when Armageddon came I would be destroyed, and rightly so. I used to apologize to Jehovah for being such a bad person.

    But gradually the weight of all that Witness guilt and shame became too much and the day came when I thew it off. I took a leap of faith that God knows who I am and what I've gone through in life. It was frightening to believe God actually cared for me. I was never taught that by Jehovah's Witnesses. I was taught that no matter what I did, it wasn't enough for Jehovah. I was taught Jehovah had a hunger that never died and I had to feed it by meetings, field service and study.

    Shortly afterward I found this board. I discovered that the elders had lied to me. I was NOT the only one. I read through some of the old posts, people like AlanF, Maximus, Farkel and JanH who pointed out some serious problems with blood, 1914, 607, the faithful and discreet slave teaching and most of all, the overall affect of the Bethel itself. It was a tremendous relief to understand that this organization not only does NOT have "the truth", it is in fact hurting people. The last thing Jehovah's Witnesses are interested in is Biblical truth.

    And so this is what I have received from this board and the people here. These are, for the most part, good people. Realize that most of us have been hurt, very badly, by Jehovah's Witnesses. Some recover faster than others, and some express their pain differently than others. We are all on a journey and we are all on a different part of that journey.

    It's difficult to say this without sounding condescending, and I hope you don't take it that way, but if you find what you are looking for among Jehovah's Witnesess then good for you. Truly. Just realize that the vast majority of folks here have already tried that route and we have been burned. And so some of us try to make something positive out of a negative, and we're here to help others who have been hurt. And one way of doing that is by discussing inconsistencies and hypocricies among the Witnesses. Think of it as online therapy.

    As for why we don't "move on"? Well many have, and no longer post here. One day I'll do the same; but I'll do it when I'm ready. Kind of like you and your return to the Witnesses. You waited until you were ready, eh?

    In the meantime, take what you need and leave the rest.

    Chris

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    JGnat. You never dither, so dont respond to such a ludicruous bait.

    As to "logic" getting them in, I agree, I suppose. Most of the other groups Ive had a look at use mass hysteria and emotional manipulation in the conversion process. The dubs use step by step "logical" reasoning as laid out in a study book. When I say "emotional manipulation" i mean most other groups seek to elicit a point of emotional breakdown and collapse into tears. The dubs, far as I know, dont do this. Truly, a departure from the general method of conversion.

  • northern girl
    northern girl

    Big Tex:

    Chris ... thank you SO much for your kind and thorough answer. I was going to PM you to thank you but you were good enough to post to me. Now I do realize your side and thank you for seeing mine.

    I DO have a habit of jumping in before I test the waters and this isn't the first time I've been terribly rude. I appologize to anyone I've offended here. Too bad I can't say it won't happen again but I'm sure going to try.

    Thanks again ... northern girl.

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