I enjoyed your post Bradley. I am with six on this one. I do believe that many, many stereotypes are true. (Sorry). To think that ALL JW's are this way or that way is not appropriate. But to say that, for example, JW's make 5 meetings per week, well, that's true, isn't it? Now to say that ALL JW's make 5 meetings per week is NOT true. But is the first comment true about JW's attending 5 meetings per week?......You are suggesting that nothing is absolute. And of course, you are correct. But most things negative about Jehovah's Witnesses are true. ......If a family were in the same Hall for 30 years, and they never felt the "love of the brothers", they could rightly say (by their own experience) that the brothers were not loving to them. No does that mean EVERY "brother" was not loving? No. But I think you get the point.
Apostate Logical Fallacies -- Part 1
by logansrun 43 Replies latest jw friends
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Aztec
I just had to say that rem cracked me up...
Come on, you like beef, potatoes, and green beens, so you will like this beef, potato, and green been casserole." This is fallacious for the same reason that the following is fallacious: "You like eggs, icecream, pizza, cake, fish, jello, chicken, taco sauce, soda, oranges, milk, egg rolls, and yogurt so you must like this yummy dish made out of all of them."
I agree with Logansrun on this. Over generalising is not helpful for combatting an organization like the WTBTS.
Sorry Sixy. I still wanna rub your head!
~Aztec
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integ
Logan,
..it is my intention to try and refine our arguments against the Society as much as possible for the purpose of trying to battle against it.
I like that.
Integ.
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IslandWoman
This board is good for JW info but imo it's primary focus is on healing and making friends. People need to vent out the hurt and anger and this DB provides a place for that. Many exJWs have had a horrible time in the Org. and they need to get it out, but if they are making generalizing statements then it's important for others who feel differently to express their experiences and views. Truth is important, both personal and general.
Just my opinion.
IW
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logansrun
Island Woman,
You're wrong.
Bradley
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IslandWoman
LOL, Just trying to keep up my losing streak!
IW
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wednesday
Agree IW.
What happened to me, IS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. What happened to u, is WHAT HAPPENED TO U.
U do judge a religion by its adherants. By their fruits u will know them.
I will be as petty as i please, it is my feelings and it happened to me.
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Lady Lee
Whoa This just jumped out and tweaked me
But, Simon for every bad experience you have you will find a "good" one. Just read the pages of the WT and you will see tale after tale of how nice, friendly, helpful and clean the JWs are. If one were to only read their literature they would get the wrong impression. If one were to only visit this site, they too would get the wrong impression. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, albeit leaning towards this site, mind you. I just get the feeling many posters here don't really realize this and uncritically accept just everything that is said here.
WT literature is pure propaganda. Stories are sanitized versions of reality. I don't think truth is in the middle. I think it might be closer to some posters who have a balanced viewpoint. Many here are hurting - badly and it is natural they aren't the most balanced in how they see the organization. I can deal with that.
My issue here is that historically victims of any kind of abuse have little to lose by telling the truth. Most victims actually minimze how bad it really was for them. Mnay have been shamed by the org and it takes a while for them to admit just how bad it was. In fact it takes many a long time to even begin to realize the extent of the damage done to themsleves and their families.
On the other hand the WTS has a lot to lose by telling the real truth. They are invested in keeping the secrets. Otherwise why DF people who might talk. Why enforce the shunning policy if not to "protect" members from learning the truth. Why make announcements and put in print that the media is telling lies about them.
Earlier you stated that the society could not be held responsible if individuals do not follow their suggestions to be loving.
By its own policies and "encouragement" for people to think of the org first, meetings first, service first, and people second they encourage this lack of love. People are second rate. Their individual needs are secondary to the WT needs. Got a problem? - go to more meetings! Not getting to meetings? - you are weak! Weddings funerals - the focus is on the org not on the people involved. Careing for the sick and elderly? widows and orphans? - let the dead bury their dead, let those who are deserving - do more, and if they can't it is a persona; failure
These kinds of organizational policies and teachings do not encorage an atmosphere of love.
Even in cases where someone wants and needs some spiritual assistance it so often becomes a matter of looking for the dirt and making sure the problem does not become known. If it can be silenced then the person often gets by with a reprimand. But WT policy is more concerned about appearances than assisting people who really need it. Elders will be told by the org to DF if a "sin" is known.
There will always be people who ignore "counsel". There will always be those who adhere to it as if their life depended on it. A lot of people stay well after they know it is not the truth because of fear of losing family. WT policy is responsible for that.
I also know that while I was a JW I thought the elders in my cong were loving and kind. Until I ran into their bad side. Then I could not believe this other side to them that I never would have suspected was there. Sadly I think WT policy hardens them in terrible ways that make them company men instead of care-takers of the flock
All that said I think we need to be balanced and clear about our perspectives.
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logansrun
Lady Lee,
WT literature is pure propaganda. Stories are sanitized versions of reality. I don't think truth is in the middle. I think it might be closer to some posters who have a balanced viewpoint.
The key is your last sentence -- it's the balanced posters stories that are trustworthy. Sorry, but I don't know if that is the majority here or anywhere else.
Many here are hurting - badly and it is natural they aren't the most balanced in how they see the organization. I can deal with that.
But, shouldn't they try and change that? At least...eventually?
My issue here is that historically victims of any kind of abuse have little to lose by telling the truth.
But, you've just said they aren't the most balanced about what they say.
Most victims actually minimze how bad it really was for them.
With some things, perhaps. With this religion? I don't think so.
Mnay have been shamed by the org and it takes a while for them to admit just how bad it was. In fact it takes many a long time to even begin to realize the extent of the damage done to themsleves and their families.
I agree with the last part.
By its own policies and "encouragement" for people to think of the org first, meetings first, service first, and people second they encourage this lack of love. People are second rate. Their individual needs are secondary to the WT needs. Got a problem? - go to more meetings! Not getting to meetings? - you are weak! Weddings funerals - the focus is on the org not on the people involved. Careing for the sick and elderly? widows and orphans? - let the dead bury their dead, let those who are deserving - do more, and if they can't it is a persona; failure
It's not always that simple. Much depends on the elders doing the "encouragement." For the most part, I agree with you. But some people -- elders and others in the organization -- just don't see it that way. They are happy and content with things and don't make the connection.
There will always be people who ignore "counsel". There will always be those who adhere to it as if their life depended on it. A lot of people stay well after they know it is not the truth because of fear of losing family. WT policy is responsible for that.
I also know that while I was a JW I thought the elders in my cong were loving and kind. Until I ran into their bad side. Then I could not believe this other side to them that I never would have suspected was there. Sadly I think WT policy hardens them in terrible ways that make them company men instead of care-takers of the flock
Very, very true.
All that said I think we need to be balanced and clear about our perspectives.
That's all I'm trying to do!
Bradley
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DannyBear
Lady Lee,
This was one of the best synopsis of the reason there is such a vacume of love within the org;
****By its own policies and "encouragement" for people to think of the org first, meetings first, service first, and people second they encourage this lack of love. People are second rate. Their individual needs are secondary to the WT needs. Got a problem? - go to more meetings! Not getting to meetings? - you are weak! Weddings funerals - the focus is on the org not on the people involved. Careing for the sick and elderly? widows and orphans? - let the dead bury their dead, let those who are deserving - do more, and if they can't it is a persona; failure
These kinds of organizational policies and teachings do not encorage an atmosphere of love.****
Consise and very directly points to the reason why so many jw's are depressed and guilt ridden.
If there is a God in heaven, who wants his creatures to be happy and fulfilled.........can he possibly be associated with a religion that so manipulates and controls every aspect of life?
Please do not even introduce me to him (the jw god), should be the response for those seeking a truly loving God.
Great stuff.
Danny