How Much is Personal Responsibility vs WTS' Fault?

by Prisca 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • ninecharger
    ninecharger

    I went to university, when nobody else did.

    I was ostracised, and made to feel Guilty. I was always stubborn, refusing to let anyone tell me what to do. That's why I left home as soon as I could. Some at the Kindumb Hell made snide remarks like "why should you be doing what you want?"

    However, da Troof did inhibit me because my feet were in two troffs. Without all the meetings and FS I could have done much better. I take full responsibility for my life now, but the judge in Vicki Boer's case did emphasise how this religion can destroy a person's ability to really stand up for themselves.

    I am grateful that babble principles (as I understood them) stopped me from going too wild and pressing the self-destruct button in my youth.

    The past is over - don't let the WT ruin anymore of your one and only life.

    9

  • Alf3831
    Alf3831

    I have read everyones comments on this thread and feel that all have very valid points to consider. I believe the WTBTS does have some responsibility regarding the affects of being raised as a JW and its results. But in reading through everyones comments, I must ask, did the WTBTS *directly* influence the decisions that were made in your life? What I mean by this is, if we were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses, was it not our parents, friends, family that tried to *enforce* the WTBTS policies regarding association, lack of a college education, etc...Did not the society simply set forth recommendations, and the enforcing of such recommendations were done by our parents? or if some of us were involved as adults, allowing the society to force us to behave in a certain manner (ie. refusing blood, or not going to the police to report an allegation of child abuse) says more about our *thought process* in allowing us to be duped in this way! Our normal thought process would be to do what we can to live would it not? Our normal thought process would be to go after the individual who violated your child, would it not?

    In this world we have lots of influences, the media, our neighbors, friends, co-workers. It is *our* responsibility to weed out those things that may influence us negatively, and make decisions that are in the best interest of ourselves and our families. We cannot simply fall-back and play the "victicrat" role.

    From personal experience, I can say that I allowed myself to be influenced in this manner, even after becoming inactive. For example, for some time I was afraid to discuss with my parents the concerns I had regarding the society. They oftened asked when I was going to return to meetings. I avoided these conversations like the plague. Also, since becoming inactive I used to often avoid running into witnesses I knew, since they would always strike up a conversation about what I was upto given I had grown a goatee. For some reason, by me having facial hair, meant that I needed to be preached to. But since I sat down and really analyzed this situation, I had to make a decision, that I was responsible for my own actions, and I could no longer avoid these witnesses in a child-like manner, since I could care less what they really thought. In essence, I had to stand up for what I thought to be the right course of action.

    Also, when it came to my parents, I put it in my mind that I was not going to allow the org to keep me from my associating with them, who have remained active. So because of this I took a proactive approach. Had many, many heart to heart talks with my parents. When they tried to avoid me, I was there...when they asked me to leave their home, I returned, when they pleaded for me not to return until I shaved...I retuned, goatee and all, again, and again, and again, and again. I was not going to lose my parents!!! Since then my association with them has been extremely positive, and our conversations are geared towards different directions. Basically, my parents knew that they werent going to get rid of me, because they KNEW how much I loved them. Plain and simple, I was not going to allow an outside influence to affect what I knew to be the right course of action.

    So for many of us, leaving the WT baggage behind may be the best thing. Often times I hear that one feels they must associate with former JW's to have someone to assist in the healing process. Or there are those that come to these boards religiously in hopes of "an answer." However, in so doing, the healing process will not begin, since you have not allowed the *chains of influence* to be broken, ie. the WT with its teachings still are very much a part of your life.

    Yes, the society does have some to blame, but we must come to a point when we must understand that we are accountable for our own actions. Also, for many of us that were raised in the org, As kids, our parents were for the most part our main influence, so they must also be accountable not just for themselves, but for their own children. They were the ones that took the steps to stop you from attending dances, proms, associating with worldly friends, continuing your education, no birthdays, no christmas etc....they were the enforcers of those WT policies you consider so cruel to children! It is time we put things in proper perspective

    My two cents!

    Alf3831

  • Jim_TX
    Jim_TX

    Good questions Prisca,

    I really do not sit around pondering things like this too much anymore... although I _will_ admit that I have given many - if not most - of these questions thought in the past.

    I feel that the experiences I have had in the past are now part of me - and make up who I am now.

    I do not blame anyone - or any organization for where I now am.

    I was once complaining about how my mom took me out of a junior college - saying that I did not need to go anymore (after 1 semester).

    The friend I was telling this to told me that while I lived at home and was under the control of my mom - I could rightfully complain... but since I had left home, I could not rightfully do so anymore. I could go back to college and get my degree if I wanted to.

    No better words were ever spoken. I have since realized that the only one that I can now 'blame' for my successes or failures is ... me.

    Have I gone back to college and gottem ny degree? No - but I now know that I can if I want to - and if I don't - then it is my own bloody fault - no one elses'.

    Regards,

    Jim TX

  • cat1759
    cat1759

    Such heartfelt words from all of you.

    Here it is in black and white. I didn't know what a college was growing up. I was taken out of tenth grade to go to where the need was great and told that the end is coming and we have to preach. The year 1975. My parents good bad or indifferent believed every word out of the borgs mouth. So we preached and preached. Then I got married, had four kids to realize that I needed a job that preaching was not going to provide for my kids. Well go into the world after all these years and guess what, you don't have a high school diploma. Your parents never thought you would need it. Turned down by many jobs. I finally ended up delivery newspapers to stores at night when my kids slept. During the day I would do colllections and billing. Working 15hrs day. Manual labor. Hey sling a couple hundred bundles of newspaper on your shoulders for 8hrs of the 15 and see what you feel like coming home to four kids all because you were told the end was coming and preaching was what you had to do.

    I along with many others believed in the all allusive Neptune dream. I later went and recieved my GED, then started college. I am still working towards a business degree ten years later I am one semester shy of the degree. I got hurt at work so for the last three years have been sitting it out.

    The end was coming. There was no life out of the borg! Do I blame anyone? No, I blame myself for beleiving in a dream that with any sane mind I could have figured out it was pure deception.

    Now as far as blame, the WTBS has a huge burden. They have ignored the pleas of the flock, the children. They have handed out death sentences like it was candy. They should have to pay for all the therapy it is going to take those people in order to live a happy healthy god given life.

    Yesterday the new Arch bishop of Boston came live on tv and apologized for the sexual abuse that was heaped on it's children. They are at least taking responsibilty even if it is in words only. In my book apologies go further than anything. Maybe it is time the society stands up like the man that they are suppose to be an starts to apologize for what they have heaped on their flock. We all know they won't as they are not humble enough to admit they were wrong. No, they will keep spewing out "new light", god given candy and not even bother with making excuses for their sins. Where is the humility in this?

    My ex was given scholarships to medical schools because his mom worked for a dr and the dr wanted him to practice along side him. My ex actually does have brains but he was not allowed to take those scholarships as the end was coming. Instead he sits now years later in drug induced relaxation. No one is to blame for taking all that away from this man. He did what he was told to do. He can not find his way out of a paper bag. How sad to have choices now, years later and throw them all away because inside he is filled with guilt because he feels that the end is coming and he is not worthy. Gee can't imagine where the thinking for this came from.

    Cathy

    Still in therapy, still working out my own issues. Hope someday that I can be a responsible adult in spite of my past.

  • waiting
    waiting

    If nothing else, this thread shows the wide variety of things that do & don't happen to people as the result of the WTBTS.

    I was at Steve Hassan's & Randy Watters' cult seminar and a woman who had literally escaped Scientology was a guest speaker:

    When she would tell her friends what Scientology had gotten her to believe, to teach, etc., they would stare dumbfounded at her and say "How could you BELIEVE that crap?"

    She threw her hands out wide and told us all (who were staring dumbfounded at her) 'BECAUSE I WAS IN A CULT!"

    The x-Scientology woman? 20 years $200,000, front teeth kicked out, lost her husband, and had to start from scratch - emotionally, financially, emotionally and all alone. She was marvelous. Did she resent Scientology? I suspect so. Did she live her life full of resentment? Absolutely not! She is marvelously funny and intelligent And she's active in the fight to make people realize the damage cults usually do to persons.

    Another man had left Scientology also. He told how he had to walk away with nothing but $13 in his wallet. He stopped to call his family, who shunned him. He was so upset, he walked away from phone booth leaving his wallet on top of phone. Penniless with no friends & no family. Very quiet man.

    He had to walk out of the seminar because he couldn't control his tears. It just depends.

    In this respect, it's like survivors of the Nazi concentration camps. Some were zombies, some were hurt for the rest of their lives, some never spoke about their experience ever, some actively hunted their captors.....and some just went on with their lives without too much ramifications. And others killed themselves. They all survived basically the same trauma.....but each individual was impacted differently.

    Some had it harder than others too.

    Steve Hassan's books are excellent on this subject. I highly recommend the reading of them. I learned much from his cult seminar - would also recommend that to anyone next time it comes around. He works with Randy Watters over at Freeminds.

    Take care.

    waiting

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Personally, I would like the Society to give me back the ten-million dollars I gave them. But, ah well. Such is life.

    Bradley

  • hksb
    hksb

    I think it is the WTS' fault that kids who are brought up as JWs often have a really horrible childhood and teenage years. It's also the WTS' fault that JWs ostracize family members who leave. However, I think the parents of these kids also deserve a large portion of the blame for accepting the JW approach to raising children.

    For adults who voluntarily accept the JW way after undergoing a 'normal' upbringing I'm afraid it's a case of 'caveat emptor'. Any adult who is silly enough to be suckered into their scam has only themselves to blame (in my opinion).

  • Prisca
    Prisca
    They all survived basically the same trauma.....but each individual was impacted differently.

    Excellent point that could be used in relation to our experience with the JW religion. We all had some experience with it, many of us for much of our lives. We each were impacted that pertains to us alone, and we each have a unique reaction from our experience.

    It'd be interesting to attend those Steve Hassan seminars, as well as those Ex-JW Conventions, such as the one being held in October. Those that can and do attend, make the most of it. We don't have those sort of things down my way.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Prisca,

    Hassan's Cult Seminar helped me a lot. My husband and sister attended also - and they were impressed with just so much information and insight. Got to meet Plum & Dungbeetle too. And a marvelous group of persons who don't frequent xjw forums - from weird religious, to regular religious, to atheists.

    Scientology is definitely a cult. But one woman there was raised like the Branch Dividian group. And she had soooooooooo many problems adjusting to life - waaaaaaay more off the edge than the Scientology people. A lovely young woman, married with kids, therapy, ........and still couldn't get a handle on her situation. A large family - and none could even talk to each other, and they all left the cult......but it shattered the whole family unit.

    There was a Hare Krishna woman who had joined when they recruited her in college. Stayed in for 20 yrs. Her father kept in touch with her all those years, even pretending to help the group....so he could eventually help her out. She did, got her Masters & wrote a book on her experiences to help others trying to leave. Thing is, the book makes cult members look weird (which others think too).....so when she tries to get a job on her education level - they ask if she's published. Then they read her book, and she's found it's exceedingly hard to get a job. Go figure.

    And then's there people who just leave and go on. I found a quote about DID persons a long time ago, which I think is pertinent:

    Most DID people live normal lives. They just live them uncomfortably. -author unknown at present.

    I agree - and I think that fits a lot of cult survivors too. It just depends upon the person's individual experience - and what kind of mental/emotional makeup that person has within him.

    waiting

  • alias
    alias

    "it is now up to us me to make our my lives life the kind of lives life we I want to live"

    My vote goes for personal responsibility. รพ

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